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TOUGH LOVE: DID POLITICAL CORRECTNESS TRIGGER THE TRIGGERING? - by Mr Biffo

10/3/2016

58 Comments

 
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"Don't feed the trolls..." - remember that from back in the day before we all learned not to feed the trolls?

It was the mantra we all had drummed into us, as we took our first, tentative steps into the social media age; a piece of advice as important and formative as "look right, then left, when crossing the road".

​Inevitably, some of us got taken out by cars, but that was how things were back then. We all learned the rules. Sometimes the hard way, but it helped.

And then Gamergate happened, and the trolls suddenly had a greater purpose. A banner to rally behind. Strength in numbers.

We don't need to recap the origins of Gamergate, but it was the catalyst/starting gun for a sackload of - mostly - repressed, oppressed, right-wing, white, ragemales to attempt to seemingly get their own back on a life and a world they felt they'd lost control of. And now that cultural war, which has been raging for the past 18 months or so, has gone to the next level.

If you're on Twitter, you might've noticed that in the last 24 hours or so there's been this thing trending, called 'The Triggering'. Frankly, it might as well have been called "The Trollering" - given that it's basically a mass attempt - by the aforementioned, mostly right-wing, white males (for the most part) - to provoke a reaction in the name of free speech. 

What this translates to, of course, are the inevitable rape jokes, transphobia, racism, body-shaming, support for Donald Trump... Not so much free speech, as hate speech. That's essentially what they're fighting for: the right to be able to say overweight people are ugly, and trans people are mentally ill, without getting criticised for it.

​Truly, a struggle for the ages.

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THE TRIGGER
​The Triggering started with an idea: 24 hours of social media "free speech" tagged #TheTriggering - as a way of using inflammatory emotional trigger words to provoke Social Justice Warriors, feminists, "cultural marxists", and the like.

Yes - I know. Why would anyone bother, right?

But bother they did, thanks to a website called Age of Shitlords, who declared it a way to fight back against what was labelled 
"Feminist social media", that "has been cracking down on liberal, libertarian and conservative opinions which oppose their Disneyfield, 'safe spaces' policy".

It's repellent and repugnant, obviously, but it seems to have worked for the most part - at least, as far as an organised demonstration goes (commendably, their targets have - on the whole - wisely kept quiet for once, rather than give the trolls what they seek). 

THE POWER OF THE THING
Here's the thing, though. If these people are fighting back, it's because they have something they feel they need to fight back against. Unfortunately - and this isn't going to be a popular opinion - there are times when I do wonder if political correctness has gone too far.

Whether people have become too knee-jerk sensitive to every last thing... and that those of us who are somewhat more moderately liberal have spent too long bowing down to that, and going "There there...", instead of going "Er... maybe get a bit of perspective?".

You see, you are never, ever, ever, going to change the Gamergaters, or the The Triggerers, or the Shitlords, or whatever you want to call them. No matter how well you present your case, or stamp your foot, or point out the wrongness of their behaviour... you won't change them. The more you push political correctness, the less flexible you are, the more inflexible they'll become.

DINNER PLATES
It's something people in abusive relationships must learn: you're not going to change that other person. Those glimmers of kindness you see in them will always be followed by another shitty comment, or dinner plate thrown at the wall.

The only real power you have in that relationship is to get out. And that's what needs to happen now: anyone who is offended by Gamergate, or The Triggering... needs to step away, and stop making it worse. Carry on with what you're doing, and don't engage. They want to feel they've upset you: it makes them feel in control. 

Bear in mind that in 100 years time, society is going to look back on today and be stunned that anybody was ever considered less than equal. Trust me. Everything is going in the right direction. Broadly speaking, we're in a good place. We've come a long way already.

By staying put, crying foul, coming across like a victim, all you do is fan the flames and make them stronger. It's exactly what they want. You empower them and prove their argument. You give them a cause. 

I fear that The Triggering is a depressing - but utterly inevitable - response to the rise of more extreme socially progressive views, and this out-of-control political correctness we're seeing. If you push against something too hard, it's going to resist even harder. It risks turning a dying breed into a crusading army of righteous martyrs.

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ROCKING ALL OVER THE WORLD
​Look. Don't get me wrong here. It's important to challenge the status quo. It's important that nobody is any less equal than anybody else. 

Without the Suffragettes, without the Civil Rights movement, without Stonewall - our society would be in a much more backward and unpleasant place.

But what I sometimes see with Social Justice Warriors - and for the record I HATE that term - is every bit as reactionary as what I see from Gamergaters, or whatever we call them.


I'm a father to three daughters, step-father to another three, I've two sisters and two foster sisters. I'm surrounded by women. I've also got straight, gay, and trans relations and friends. I know one too many people who have been the victim of sexual assault. Thin, fat, black, white... heck - I've even got nephews who fought in Afghanistan. 

And you know what? Nobody I actually know in real life would dream of going online and whingeing about their lot. You know why? Because they're just getting on with life. They're not wandering through the world with their open wounds on show, waiting for someone to brush against them, so that they can cry foul. They've better things to do. Bringing up kids, or going on holiday, or making dinner, or walking the dog.

Some of the rhetoric I read online is so over-the-top, so patronising, so lacking in restraint, or perspective, or empathy, that it's no wonder the more unhinged elements of the right-wing will lash out against it. They feel oppressed, because it does feel like political correctness has gone too far. I hate to say it, but when they categorise some people as "cry-babies", part of me thinks they've got a point. And I hate that I think that!

OVER YOURSELF
For some reason, I studied person-centred pyschotherapy for two years, eventually dropping out just as I got my fitness to practice. I started to feel that talking therapies can often be misused or misunderstood. Too often it's illness-focused, rather than wellness focused, and - frankly - there are too many terrible therapists out there.

I saw first hand that clients often will present themselves as wounded, or struggling, yet be quite comfortable in their pain. They'll be used to it, having allowed themselves to be defined by it, like a comfy pair of shoes that might be well-worn, but are otherwise not fit for purpose. They don't know anything better.

When therapy goes wrong it's because the therapist colludes with the client. Instead of empowering them to grow, they sympathise rather than empathise. Both parties come at the therapeutic relationship from a rather narcissistic perspective, and it isn't beneficial. It's the difference between going "You poor, poor thing..." and "Well, what can you do to change it?". The latter, tough as it might be to hear, works. The former doesn't.

And sometimes I wonder if that's what I see writ large with - for want of a better term - the Social Justice Warrior movement: collusion, people staying in their pain, rather than truly wanting to escape it, and being surrounded by those who facilitate that... and it has led to The Triggering.

UGLY INSIGHT
I feel there needs to be some sort of mass getting-over-yourself. I hate that the extreme nature of the discussion has lead to this - not a backlash against political correctness, but truly a deeply ugly insight into just how unpleasant human beings can be.


That said, while the rhetoric used on Twitter has been foul, I'm loathe to criticise it too much, purely because I don't want to give them the benefit of getting exactly what they wanted - moral outrage from liberal pansies like myself. They're ghastly pricks, obviously, but that's exactly what they want us to say. 

I don't want to live in a world where Twitter is dominated by comments that are designed to hurt others - but the Triggerers smell weakness, and use it to hurt. If you are too wounded to be unable to go online without that happening to you, then please take some responsibility for yourself. You have a choice. As hard as it might be to accept, you're only making things worse for everyone.

Unless, y'know, that's exactly what you want...?

FROM THE ARCHIVE:
ONE YEAR ON: GAMERGATE EXPLAINED
​MEGA-QUIZ 5 BILLION - PRESENTED BY A G... G... GHOST!

10 KIDS HAVING THE TIME OF THEIR LIVES AT DISNEYLAND
58 Comments
Clive Peppard
10/3/2016 12:35:19 pm

Well said, a mass getting over yourself would be superb. Ive said it before and I'll say it again - I despise all elements of teh Gamergate thing and have eschewed it all in favour of actually just playing computer games. both sides, all of them, everysingle one of them, needs to take a long hard look in the mirror and then stop.

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dab88
10/3/2016 01:17:22 pm

Yeah. Agreed. I'm not gonna waste any more energy on the subj...

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Harry Steele
10/3/2016 01:21:57 pm

Great article, and it mirrors what I have been thinking over the last few days: that there's too much hate speech out there and it often comes from both sides of any issue.

For example, yesterday The Mary Sue posted a 1000 word article about the sexism of Jurassic World, mostly focused on the protracted death of a female character.

For the life of me I don't know why. The film came out last year and there were a great many articles written then about the perceived sexism in the film (I myself think it's just an entertaining movie about those krazy dinoz). But now? In March? It seemed just like an awful waste of time and effort to devote to crapping on the film AGAIN. It added nothing new, except to say 'I hate this too and you probably should.'

On the other side of the table, I find myself looking forward to the new Ghostbusters movie but good lord if I can find one positive comment about it (on the movie's facebook page, one person tagged their friend and suggested that they kill themselves at a screening to 'send them a message.' What message would that be, exactly?)

I feel like geek websites are less about celebrating stuff nowadays, which is sad. We live in a golden age of geek movies, games and videos (with Digitiser back, no less!) but you wouldn't know it if you spent all your time online.

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Stoo
10/3/2016 01:32:55 pm

I get twitchy around suggestion of equivalences. Political correctness can be irritating, I guess? And go wrong sometimes. But the PC types, the SJWs, etc are basically on the right side. They're the ones pushing for a more inclusive and equal world. Usually their worst sin is being a bit shrill and ranty.

So while I can understand being fed up with the argument, and wanting to just give up and play games, I can't agree with any notion that the two sides are somehow as bad as each other. They're really not.

Not that you're necessarily drawing a total equivalence here, I'm just ranting a bit, and your more specific point seems to be about tactics and how to respond to the trolls. Which... we've already discussed in the past. The notion of keeping a level head and carrying on your day as normal carries sense. But. I don't think I could just demand that of, say, a victim of sexist harassment. I've not had to go through the stuff they have.

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Mr Biffo
10/3/2016 01:40:20 pm

Yeah, I'm not really saying that they're as bad as one another in this case. The opposite really. The Triggerers/Gamergaters... well, they're so beyond the pale in terms of being awful human beings now that I think it's gone past the point of even trying to point that out.

I think the point of this article - and really, it's me trying explore what I'm feeling, as much as anything else - is to appeal to those who I feel more of a kinship to.

And you're right about not being able to tell a victim of sexual harassment to "get over it". But at the same time, even in therapy there has to come a point where you do say that - albeit not in such blunt words, and you do it with compassion and empathy - because otherwise the person risks becoming a victim, and getting stuck.

Look up the Karpman drama triangle (a sort of endless feedback loop of victim("Poor me")-rescuer("I can save you!")-persecutor("It's all your fault!"). If someone doesn't step outside of that, there becomes no way to break it. Victims and persecutors draw others into the drama, and on it goes. And you see it with what's happening online. It's classic human behaviour writ large.

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Stoo
10/3/2016 03:27:08 pm

I keep wanting to agree with you but then thinking "yeahhhh, but....". I don't like placing any sort of burden on the victims. They have enough to deal with.

Dunno if I have a better answer, other than to just try and show a bit of solidarity with people facing such unpleasantness. (which, as discussed elsewhere, is often the point of engaging with this stuff, more than hoping to change the minds of trolls).

Anyway I do like reading your thoughts on this topic, and it does make a change from a lot of the yelling and snarking that takes place on the internet.

The Green Spurt
11/3/2016 12:36:02 am

Technically a victim of sexual assault is already a victim, whether or not they are told,in nice words, to get over it.

Unsure of oneself
10/3/2016 02:07:42 pm

In my experience the PC or SJW types are actually pushing not for inclusiveness, but rather the opposite.

Instead of saying: hey, it's a big world, let's all just enjoy our own thing, they repeatedly try to clamp down on those who don't adhere militantly to their narrow agenda.

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Stoo
10/3/2016 03:22:55 pm

Their narrow agenda of what exactly? Treating everyone as equals? Valuing the lives and views of minorities? If some SJW is being ranty and shouting over you a bit, do not mistake that with actual oppression.

jay
10/3/2016 04:08:27 pm

Agreed, the proselytizing and virtue signalling on Facebook and CIF from SJWs who almost exclusively live in safe middle class areas pretty much sums up the modern left.

colincidence link
10/3/2016 04:54:29 pm

Every time I've seen someone complain of virtue signalling, they themselves seem rather fond of hateful-jerk signalling.

jay
10/3/2016 05:21:11 pm

Crikey, if you think that's hate filled, you really ought to ask Mother to allow you outside of your quaint village in Surrey a little more,although I do doubt you will be prepared for what you find.

PeskyFletch
11/3/2016 10:43:06 am

And the complete lack of self awareness, ability to take criticism and always resorting to sweeping generalisations pretty much sums up the modern right.Do you see what i did there? Do you see?

Jay
11/3/2016 10:54:56 am

I do criticism very well thanks and self debasement is a virtue. Oh and I am far from right wing, a traditional liberal is what I am as the son of a former coal miner. Acting pious on the internet is pretty much all the identity politics obsessed modern left seem good for, and you know it

PeskyFletch
11/3/2016 11:09:31 am

Oh dear, i rather think you didn't pick up on the point i was making. Oh well.

Alastair
11/3/2016 03:56:16 pm

Opposites yet equals vs simple opposing sides in an argument, I can get why they aren't the same.

I can also get a bit nonplussed hearing complaints about political correctness gone mad when I remember Dad gong to work in London not long after people were asked not to advertise rooms to rent to Irish or black people.

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Keith
10/3/2016 01:56:01 pm

The problem is that suggesting that some people "opt out" doesn't take into account the fact that people actually do opt out, and that the people who engage are just the most vocal people who haven't opted out.
While the very fact that that battle is being fought no doubt provides the gamergaters/trolls/misogynists with some kind of justification, the fact is that without opposing voices being visible, such platforms could easily end up as "no go areas" for people who aren't MRA's or whatever.
I think that talk of futility and the idea of not being able to win misses the point somewhat - if I make a comment on a facebook thread, say, where there is a lot of trolling of a group or individual, then I might not change anyone's mind, but what it can do is make someone feel a tiny bit more like the world isn't entirely made up of arseholes - while arguing against such people can feel a bit like banging your head against a wall, getting a message from someone saying "hey, sorry to bother you, but just wanted to say thanks for putting that guy right on a few things, glad not everyone on here is like that - I was thinking of leaving" can make it worth it. I've made good friends from sticking my oar in on some quite horrible threads.

I don't think that the analogy of an abusive relationship is applicable; I think it's more analogous to, say, wanting to carry on going to a pub you like, or a bar you like, without feeling that you're the one who has to leave because there are some arseholes being arseholes.

Take this site for example - it's occasionally had an influx of gamergaters, and they've tended to disappear after a day or so. What if they stayed? what if every time one of us lot here posted something silly we had someone threatening us or making it all about something from a thread a few weeks back? should we leave digi to them?

And, with respect, a lot of the responses that happen are actively in support of women who are getting death threats, rape threats etc. Opting out may well stop escalation into a twitter shit storm, but I would imagine a lack of visible support could make the threatened person feel even shittier.

I rarely use twitter myself, so I tend not to get involved in such things, but I just really, really don't think that the best way of getting past this sort of thing is to just advocate ignoring it all; it's more productive to see the shit storms as the tip of an iceberg, beneath which there actually are discussions that can go somewhere.

The final sentence of the article is really not reasonable, though, is it? put the sentiment into practice, and it's basically saying that social media aint for you if you can't handle the abuse. I really don't want to be hyperbolic, but its easier to say that when, say, you don't have to balance out your enjoyment of putting out digi with how you feel if a stranger tells you you're too ugly to rape.

Sorry, bit more serious and ranty than I usually get on here. I don't mind digi being apolitical at all, and I don't mind if it doesn't mention poltical issues, or analyse them. But it doesn't sit right to essentially deal with it with a shrug and a "if you don't like it, maybe the internet isnt for you" sentiment.

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Mr Biffo
10/3/2016 02:13:17 pm

Yeah, I know what you're saying... and I'm obviously talking in very broad strokes with this piece. But what can we do? I honestly think that fighting back against these people makes the situation worse - it makes it worse for trans people, gay people, black people, women... It's literally pouring fuel on a fire every single time you engage with them and tell them they're wrong. And all that does is encourage them to be even worse.

I suppose what I'm advocating, and haven't done very well perhaps, is not that the issues shouldn't be discussed or debated, or that we should just surrender the internet to them, but that engaging directly with them doesn't help, and merely fans the flames. By all means we should promote equality for all people, but - unfortunately - in doing that we must also include equality for them to be pricks if they want to be. Otherwise they feel it's imbalanced. Which sounds dangerously like I'm agreeing with them, I know. But I think long-term if we have a genuinely fair and equal society then the likes of them WILL go away, because it will be a society that is founded on love and respect for one another.

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Stoo
10/3/2016 03:20:06 pm

The point about responding to support\show solidarity with victims, as opposed to trying to change the mind of sexists\racist setc, is a very good one.

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colincidence link
10/3/2016 01:57:36 pm

It's not really worth assessing The Triggering on any intellectual level. Trolls will be trolls, then eventually they'll grow up. We... hope.

As for us diagnosed SJWs (which I always read in my head as "s'joowus" or something), I think you may underestimate how much direct harassment and threats the big female names get. I guess it'll always be part of being a public figure, but it shouldn't be part of being a woman or feminist. And when someone's favourite insult is "You try too hard to be nice!", they may need to reassess themself.

It's a very difficult issue to be 'neutral' on, or to even know what the fuck is going on with.

Your 100 years bit is how I reassure myself too. Maybe by then, freedom-of-speech advocates will have goals other than maintaining hate and prejudice, or we'll all be too distracted by the mischief we can achieve through teleporters.

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colincidence link
10/3/2016 02:00:30 pm

Whilst slowly writing that comment, the previous two showed and eclipsed it.

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Mr Biffo
10/3/2016 02:23:10 pm

That's so true - why is it that people who advocate freedom of speech usually just want it in order to preach hate?

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J Griffin
10/3/2016 03:57:58 pm

I'll see that, and raise you "why is it that people who advocate freedom of speech have such a problem with people speaking back to them?"

colincidence link
10/3/2016 04:20:35 pm

But we're the ones in Safe Spaces, of course.

Unsure of oneself
10/3/2016 02:06:08 pm

I've been confused for a while.

I've always considered myself "liberal". In that I've always felt everyone has a right to be and do as they please without harming others. Members of the LGBT community have just as much right to be as people who hunt for sport, or watch trashy action films.

Like, whatever man, do whatever you do.

Today though - it this is was ****s up my mind - I'm regarded as some kind of right-wing despot by the "new liberals" who espouse control over everyone. Censorship, and clamping down on personal freedoms.

When did "liberalism" equal cultural totalitarianism? The SJW brigade today are behaving exactly like the tie-wearing, right-wing fascists from my youth, who said my hair was too long, and my rock music was too strange, and choosing to smoke certain plants instead of going to war meant I was weak.

And now those same people, who want to remove freedom of expression, are calling themselves liberal and me a fascist.

I literally have no idea what the **** is going on any more. I seemed to have slipped through a dimensional hole into Opposite Land.

My view: let everyone do whatever the hell they like and just leave people alone. Do not engage if you don't like the style of their underwear. JUST LEAVE PEOPLE ALONE.

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J Griffin
10/3/2016 04:14:18 pm

Is this really happening to that extent though? I'm fairly deep into the whole "SJW" business and I haven't seen as much as people always claim.

I can go on YouTube and find more hours of anti-feminist ranting than I'll ever have the time or stomach to watch, but almost no SocJus equivalent (someone like Thunderf00t alone probably puts out more invective than every major social justice poster combined, and he's just one of several). Indeed if I do find something along those lines, it's likely the recommended videos list alongside it will be filled with videos calling the original poster a cunt, or similar.

I've seen more jokes about being triggered than I can count, but I think I've seen SocJus folks actually directly complain about being triggered maybe two or three times. It feels like the joke's been repeated so often that it's kind of become the reality even when there's not a lot to support it. Shit there's been times when I started to believe it because I kept hearing it so often. But then I think back to my experience and it doesn't really add up.

Not to say there aren't shitheads, there certainly are, but it feels like there's a lot of distortion out there. Or maybe I'm just lucky, I dunno.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
10/3/2016 05:50:51 pm

Isn't it possible that both sides look at YouTube or whatever and think they see more of the opposing view because it's distinct from their own and stands out as a result? Look at the BBC, hated for its bias by liberals and right-wingers alike.

Kendall
15/3/2016 11:29:53 pm

Thunderf00t? I think the only reason I've heard of him is that a number of Youtube SJWs got together to try to get him fired from his job.

Because they didn't like what he was saying, they started a smear campaign, quoted things he'd said out of context to paint him a neo-Nazi, and sent letters lying about him to his employer and the press.

I think I'll take some trolling and tedious libertarian ranting over that kind of behaviour. Of course to an SJW a smear campaign aimed at getting someone fired is just 'punching up', and certainly not abuse or harassment (only nasty GamerGoobers do that).

jay
10/3/2016 03:39:56 pm

Didn't Churchill state that anti fascists are the fascists of the future.
He was damn right on that one

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colincidence link
11/3/2016 12:19:01 pm

No

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Dirty Barry
10/3/2016 05:49:10 pm

A friend told me about a thing called Horseshoe theory. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory

I don't want to be patronising if we already know about this stuff, but basically, horseshoe theory is what we are witnessing. Because the internet exposes us to more extreme opinions, it has become ever more obvious that Left vs Right is a false dichotomy. They seem as bad as each other, because they are.

Time has a weird effect as well. I'm just about old enough to remember when it was the Right who were into censorship and silencing dissent. Now it's starting to look the other way round. Yet people still pick their loyalty as if it was a football team, raging on in their internet threads.

Is freedom of speech an all or nothing concept? Yeah, probably. I've never heard a decent argument to the contrary.

Never mind anyway. What I'm really wondering is what the Man's Daddy and similar characters might be thinking about all this. Shucks, I sure do miss those folks...

...not meaning to be rude, loving the articles, but I'm thirsty for Morse and Lewis, hungry for some rapping shoe with a generous sprinkling of The Man.

Lets lower the tone. ; )





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jay
10/3/2016 05:52:08 pm

Good comment and yes, what would the Mans Daddy think?

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Spiney O'Sullivan
10/3/2016 06:54:23 pm

What is the favourite online controversy of a person who enjoys putting their leg above sewer covers?

Gam o'er grate (gamergate!)

Mr Biffo
10/3/2016 09:23:28 pm

1) That's interesting, and I didn't know about that.

2) I'm done with serious rants for a while. I saw the new Captain America trailer tonight and thought "Oooh! Spider-Man! Life is good!". That is all.

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Stay
10/3/2016 11:40:46 pm

I am trying to avoid all trailers and the only thing I checked today was the release date which is the April 26th. My 9 year old boy wants to go and see it as he loved the previous 2 films (also my favourite marvel films) and as a bonus he does like Peanut M&M's.

Damon link
10/3/2016 07:21:59 pm

I kept writing and re-writing a comment but this has taken an emotional tole on me so great, causing me to lose friends due to not being liberal enough - the crazies at the other extreme seem much more tolerant of moderate thoughts - that I can't bang out a coherent arrangement of words on what I want to say.

Gamergate is just one battle in an existing feud between those sides, though, and trying to see it as the entire war is a far too narrow.

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Dr Kank
10/3/2016 09:29:50 pm

I was a Gamergate supporter and I'm pretty left wing. Apart from that one time I voted Liberal Democrat, damn you Nick Clegg!

Twitter is an abomination. The power of being able to contact anybody in the world instantly and publicly, with so little effort. Mankind was not meant for such power.

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King Bobbynuts
10/3/2016 09:44:44 pm

I think part of the problem comes from seeing it as sides at all. It's kinda not really like that. What you tend to have is a bunch of people who stick to their own social circles for the most part talking amongst themselves and then a bunch of people who don't and aggressively try and harass those just minding their own business. Constantly, all day. If it is sides, it's grossly asymmetrical and one side isn't even at war or even involved or whatever prior to some dudes getting uppity.

I mean, it's not a general rule and there are a few exceptions here and there - no social group is really complete without exceptionally irritating and exceptionally vocal elements but yeah, it's more aggressors vs victims than gaters vs sjw (whatever one of them even is). Like, with that example - one is identifiable, self identified even, as a gater. The other is whoever the gater decides is one. At that point, the notion of sides collapses because it really is so handwavey and whoever, probably just some woman somewhere.

In a way, it'd be nice to believe that it was people responding that causes them to continue, causes *this* to continue but historically, it continues inaction or action, retreat or not. You only have to look at the difference here - one group of people are a bit irritating and loud on Twitter sometimes, the others seek out their home address, send them pictures of dead things and on. They hunt out family members and harass them too, ring at all hours, constantly for months, send death threats. None of the families opted in to this, none of the families asked for this, none of them responded or acted to this - they were just minding their business. If it stopped when you walked away, there'd be a point. It doesn't. Not for anyone. They keep on coming.

And whilst you have a lot of stuff going on down the food chain, when you have places like Brietbart getting involved and taking part in the harassment, you have exceptionally well funded rich white dudes guiding the conversation. Exceptionally well funded rich white dudes who are -charged- with bringing more people into their political movement and they don't care about the cost there. You have folks who are, *ahem* sympathetic to the extreme right, like the proper 'where's me helmet and armband, Vera?' corner of the political spectrum doing the same and a lot of their anti-feminist talking points all come from the same folks who, err, are paid a lot of money to concoct anti-feminist talking points specifically to continually undermine feminism and any attempts towards equality.

With those sort of forces at play, it's impossible to ignore. I mean, you can and maybe you're lucky but one day it might well turn on you and what do you do then? What do you do when every Google search for your name is now a toilet? When everything you are and your home address, your families, your history, your bank details are all floating out there in the void? How *can* you ignore that and walk away?

And more to the point, when it happens to your friends, the same.

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Dr Kank
10/3/2016 09:56:44 pm

There are plenty of Gamergate supporters who have received death threats, who have been doxxed, who have been harassed. It's just that the media doesn't report on it. I saw Thunderf00t mentioned somewhere above, for example. He was doxxed, and then people wrote letters to his employer trying to get him fired, wrote letters to his local police station, trying to get him arrested, and wrote letters to his local newspaper to smear his reputation. They bragged about doing this in Youtube videos.

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Sparrowhawk
11/3/2016 12:44:06 am

I've watched both sides as the whole thing has unfolded and while there has certainly been some unpleasantness from both sides, the amount of behaviour that could truly be classed as abusive or harassing from the GG side far outweighs the SJW side.

Superbeast 37
11/3/2016 02:13:59 pm

@Sparrow - You lack the evidence required to make that statement.

It's all personal anecdotes and weasel words based on your own preconceptions.

Doesn't help anyone. Classic example of what I've been highlighting as the main problem since the start.

Euphemia
11/3/2016 01:32:33 am

It all boils down to character.

If you're unable to express yourself without deliberately insulting, berating, mocking, denigrating or behaving in a civil manner towards others, you're on the wrong side of decent behaviour. It's possible to have views on almost every issue and talk about them without being a total dick, and that's where true debate happens. Just not on the internet, where everything devolves to where the loudest voices have run off everyone else.

Oh, and all MRA's are cunts. To paraphrase Billy Connolly, you're cunts, you've always been cunts and you'll always be cunts, and if there was a contest to find the biggest cunts in the world you'd come in second. Why? Because you're cunts.

Also, I cannot practice what I preach because I'm a massive hypocrite.

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Dirty Barry
11/3/2016 02:43:26 am

I'm no expert on Gamergate, but is the debate not getting lost in which side's behaviour was worse while ignoring the question of who had the strongest argument?

If someone threatened your life before keying "2 + 2 = 4" into your car door, does that make the sum incorrect and can we blame ALL eccentric mathmeticians for his actions?

If one happens to believe that video games (an art form) should continue without the influence of political correctness, does that make them part of the despised, "othered" group?

Is the guy who thinks feminism, beyond the dictionary definition, has become bonkers these days, worthy of contempt forevermore?

Are the people in the groups we so vehemently disagree with, human beings we could have civilized debate with and maybe even learn from?

Sadly, it doesn't seem like we're getting to that point anytime soon.

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Keith
11/3/2016 08:07:13 am

That comment is nowhere near as neutral in tone as you seem to think it is

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Peskyfletch
11/3/2016 10:50:51 am

Seconded

colincidence link
11/3/2016 12:28:05 pm

"without the interference of political correctness" in this industry means "preserving the male gaze" and "keeping dull stubblemen as the leads" and "giving breasts more representation than women" and "not combatting sexual harassment".

PC isn't censorship any more than the preceding culture is.

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pk
11/3/2016 09:54:16 am

The closing paragraph of this article seems to be saying a) "Don't go online if you think you'll be hurt by abuse" and b) "People on the receiving end of online abuse are pretending to be hurt".

I hope I've misinterpreted that, because they're both pretty fucking awful sentiments to promote.

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Rakladtor III the Terrible
11/3/2016 05:02:46 pm

a) Your comment seems to be questioning whether Biffo's suggestion that trolls are only encouraged when fed (having previously experienced abuse of this nature himself), is in fact the misconstrued garbage you've enclosed in quotation marks.
b) er.. what does using a and b as prefixes do for my points again?

I hope (for the greater good) I've misinterpreted your comment. You think someone in a fragile state should gravitate towards a caustic environment they cannot handle?

And would acknowledgement of the existence of disingenuous attention seeking narcissists that infiltrate every aspect of society (as wholly acknowledged by the field of psychology, and non idiots in general) truly be an 'awful sentiment to promote'?

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Super Bad Advice
11/3/2016 10:18:28 am

I think it's more (a) they may have the right to dish it out but remember you don't ever have to take people's shit, and (b) there are people - not many, but some - who actively look to take shit so they can make a point about it.

I don't think anyone is saying triggering or gamergate idiocy is just something people have to suck up or run away from. It's more that the people doing the worst of it it *want* the fight. So denying them the fight and the audience saves you grief and ruins their day, so should never be seen as handing them a win. And that the energy you'd burn through in a protracted slanging match with people just out to give you a shitty time could be used in a way that fights back indirectly but in a way that will actually be more effective.

What do I mean? Well, take fags (smoking fags, before anyone leaps to conclusions). You *could* shout about how it's a filthy, stinking habit directly into the face of any smoker. And some may quit. But many more may go 'sod off' and smoke just as much if not more. Or, you could put efforts into changing the perception of society as a whole, as happened. Now, smokers who demand to smoke around others are rightly perceived as selfish twats.

It's a ridiculously difficult topic to try and talk about because it's so emotionally charged. But like Richard Dawkins is a terrible spokesman for atheism because he takes it too far, some advocates for admirable social justice and equality efforts are terrible because they take it too far and the - usually very important and spot-on - message is lost in the shouting and wailing.

TL:DR - if some drunk, abusive, stinking twat says 'wanna fight?' to you in the street, you're not wrong or weak if you say 'No thanks' and leave him ranting at thin air

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pk
11/3/2016 10:40:07 am

Except, to extend your analogy a bit, the type of abuse that people are receiving online from proponents of Gamergate is not the equivalent of a drunk asking "wanna fight?" and then fucking off when you ignore him.

It's more akin to him asking you that, then following you home asking you every fifteen seconds in an increasingly loud voice, then ringing all of your neighbours' doors and asking them if they wanna fight because they're you're neighbour, then following you to work the next day - still asking - and making a massive scene in reception while shouting your name and claiming that they heard you had a fight once before and might have killed someone but it was covered up. Then, a few days later, ringing your mum three times every hour and asking her if she knows why you don't wanna fight.

I think even the hardiest of constitutions would be emotionally drained by the sheer amount of times you'd have to say "No thanks" to that sort of thing.

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pk
11/3/2016 10:41:03 am

because they're YOUR* neighbour.

Christ, that's embarrassing.

Mr Biffo
11/3/2016 11:36:22 am

Yeah... when it spills over into harassment or becomes threatening - that's when it crosses the line, obviously. That's when the police potentially needs to get involved. And that's what I had to do in 2008 - the grief I was getting reached a tipping point. I chose not to follow up with the police thing - I mean, they had the names and addresses of the people responsible - but I instead wanted to try just stepping away. And it worked, y'know.

It sucks that I had to do that, and in some respects it stalled my career, disappearing like that, but it saved my sanity. It's amazing what passive resistance can do - I just took away what they wanted, which was my engagement, and them being able to see that they were getting to me. I could've chosen to hit back - and try to hurt them like I was being affected - but it took me years to realise that it was exactly what they wanted, and all it did was fuel the harassment.

colincidence link
11/3/2016 12:33:59 pm

Glad it worked for you, Bifflord, but "just step away" halts young careers, and seems less and less feasible in the Always_Connected years since 2008, especially the way women (and their families) are pursued, especially those that are Doxxed, and now it's all on such a "readymade hate-gang" scale. It's not giving them what they want, but if you give up (for a bit), you still kinda Lose.

Alas. There is no easy answer (nor sufficient support) for the harassed. I hope I don't seem to diminish your experience.

colincidence link
11/3/2016 01:20:10 pm

btw I recognise that readymade hategangs exist for those who accidentally be a little bit racist etc. too.

Mr Biffo
11/3/2016 12:40:55 pm

Colin - no, not at all. And you make a good point. I think it's just a hot button issue for me, because I went through it - to a degree. I don't for a second compare my experience to what some have been through with the Doxxing and whatnot. But I guess I just don't want anyone else to feel as shite as I did. I know the damage it can do.

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Superbeast 37
11/3/2016 01:30:06 pm

If we look at facts, if we look at what can actually be verified and put it in context with statistics, what can we actually say with confidence?

Well we know that according to a feminist group in partnership with Twitter, that only 0.66 percent of GG related accounts were involved in anything resembling harassment.

On the other side of the coin, whilst I have seen instances of poor ethical standards, I'd estimate the genuine confirmed cases also represent less than 1% or 0.5% of reviews/articles. Most are tin foil hat stuff - journos taking Nexus 7 tablets from Ubi was stupid yes, but the reviews I read are all perfectly fair.

Basically two groups of innocent people, each the victim of smearing.

The problem aint gamers, the problem ain't games journos and the problem ain't progressives. Those terms are meaningless in themselves because neither group is an organised hive mind of clones.

The problem is a small minority of extremists who represent no one and those who will happily offer uncontested platforms to the extremists and write untruths and bigoted smears about both groups to push a political ideology or most probably just get clicks and further their own profiles.

Anyone writing anything that can't be verified or ignores the context of numbers is part of the problem.

If you flag up an instance (or even dozens) of article(s) where a journo wrote a review of a flatmates game and then use that as evidence of mass corruption....well then you are an idiot.

If you flag up an anonymous death threat (or even dozens) to a woman/women and use that as evidence that hundreds of thousands of people using a hashtag are part of an organised hate group despite this being contradicted by the evidence....then you are also an idiot.

I don't give a monkeys about anyone's opinion anymore. I want to know exactly who is saying and doing what, I want to see evidence of this, evidence of who did it, said evidence in context and I want to know the numbers of these people versus the overall numbers of those involved.

So far all I have numerically amounts to bugger all in the context of overall numbers.

The whole triggering thing only appeared to involve very small numbers in total and unacceptable material was a drop in the ocean of that.

As usual coverage is out of all proportion with every news organisation and blogger covering it using it as an excuse to push their preconceptions and prejudices with sod all in the way of statistics to support wide sweeping generalisations.

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Giz10pForAGoOnPacMan
11/3/2016 10:53:46 pm

Welcome to the internet, folks. The perfect place for shouting spite and spouting shite. Am I the only one who longs for the days of the world wide web's infancy, where the people online were generally of a friendlier, kinder, more intelligent ilk? I blame bloody Freeserve and its 1p-per-minute charge for opening up the internet to the morons of this country. My visits to the Daily Mail website were much more enjoyable before the thick and illiterate scum invaded cyberspace.

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Euphemia
12/3/2016 01:39:36 am

Aaar, it were better when it was all fields round here, and kids respected their elders. None of these big trousers and them there spiky haircuts.

National Service, value of money, knowing your place etc. etc. etc.

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