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THE TOXIC FANDOM OF RICKY GERVAIS

9/5/2018

92 Comments

 
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It's fair to say that I might've been partly responsible for one of the first large-scale examples of toxic fandom. I'm talking, of course, about Amiga owners, and their response to Digitiser's decision not to cover their preferred dying format.

Back then, the term 'toxic fandom' hadn't been invented, of course, but recently we've seen it lobbed around in relation to Rick & Morty fans, Star Wars fans, and - as of the past weekend - I've used it to describe Ricky Gervais fans.

I've met Ricky Gervais. Once, many, many years ago, I briefly crossed paths with him when I visited Channel 4 to discuss a Comedy Lab pilot I was working on. Ricky was pre-The Office, but I knew him from The 11 O'Clock Show, where he portrayed a version of himself who - in his own words - probably should've been called "Billy Bigot". You see, then everyone would've got the joke that he was only pretending to be a bigot. 

I didn't have a great deal of an opinion of him, to be honest. I didn't watch The 11 O'Clock Show, after a producer turned me down for a job on it and then some of the ideas I'd pitched to them turned up word-for-word in the first episode.

But I knew who he was.

When I entered the room where I was having the meeting, Ricky was in there. He sized me up, nodded an "Alright?", finished the conversation he was having, then told me "it's all about the comedy" - and left. I didn't think much more of it, but got the sense that he'd sized me up, and I was left with the impression that there was a bit of professional rivalry.

​Not that he had any clue who I was - why would he? - but it's something I've experienced a few times when meeting with writer-performers over the years; a guardedness, a feeling of them gauging whether I'm a potential threat.

​It's weird and one-sided, but it happens. 
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SAVILE
Having managed to miss Ricky's Channel 4 chat show - where he interviewed, among other people, Jimmy Savile - I didn't really become aware of him again until The Office. Which I loved. I also loved the first series of Extras.

The second series, by contrast, I loathed. It deviated so far from the format of the first, and just came across like he was looking down on everyone working in British comedy. It felt like he was saying "I'm better than all of you". It comes across as deeply, profoundly, narcissistic. 

I enjoyed his first big stand-up special, Animals, but since then it has felt like Gervais - mostly when cut loose from his writing, and occasional presenting, partner Stephen Merchant - has been exposed as somebody who got lucky.

His children's book series Flanimals felt like half an idea, and his self-written movies The Invention of Lying and Special Correspondents both came across like first drafts. They appeared as if nobody had dared speak up, because - in true Emperor's New Clothes style - they couldn't possibly have been as bad as they appeared to be.

The luckier Gervais got, the richer he got, and the more the chip on his shoulder seemed to grow. When Ian Hislop criticised Gervais's stand-up, he began ending every show by calling Hislop an "ugly little pug-faced cunt".

You know: it's funny, because it's something Billy Bigot would say! 

I actually think Gervais is one of the best, most natural, most talented comic performers Britain has ever produced. When he's being off-the-cuff, he's very funny. I even quite liked David Brent: Life on the Road.

​But I started watching his latest stand-up special, Humanity, last week, and I hated what I saw.
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JENNER
In case you don't know, Gervais made some jokes about Caitlyn Jenner when he last hosted The Golden Globes. He got some stick from it, and was accused of being transphobic. This formed the basis of his first protracted routine in Humanity.

He dressed it up as making a point about free speech, and SAYS that offence is about personal taste and feelings, but really... it was just an excuse to make fun of her being trans, seemingly to get back at his critics. It was punching down, aimed at one individual, but I didn't buy for a second that he was doing it to make a point about free speech. It seemed to me that it was entirely because Gervais is incredibly thin-skinned.

It just seems like an enormous waste of his potential.

You'd think that somebody with that much success, that much money, would be able to rise above criticism, but Gervais simply can't. He even talks about it in Animals - how he responds to critical tweets, when he knows he shouldn't. Of course, it's presented in an "I'm so funny aren't I?" way, but if there's always truth in comedy, then the truth of Ricky Gervais is exposed for all to see.

I mean, it's fine. We've all got insecurities. Having money and success doesn't necessarily make them go away. But in terms of his work.... a great, clever, comedian would make themselves the butt of the joke, rather than use their pulpit to kick somebody else whose from a community which is already marginalised, and suffering abuse.

Gervais's comedy doesn't have that weight of intellect of self-awareness behind it. He comes across as bullying and condescending, dropping in 'jokes' about AIDS and dead babies, and Caitlyn Jenner having been known as "Bruce" for 58 years, mining shock for laughter, without presenting a single idea that's particularly witty or insightful or original. 

He gets by, of course, because he's such a natural performer, and because millions of people love that stuff. And while they do, Netflix - and others - will continue rolling barrels of money his way.

Maybe Humanity got better past the point I switched off, but I don't much want to hear dead baby and transgender jokes - at least not presented as they are by Gervais - because I had a niece who died of a cot death, and I've got transgender family members who I'm very proud of for having the courage to come out.

Even though seeing my niece's corpse was the single worst moment of my life, I can't expect the childless Gervais and his fans to understand why it might be upsetting to hear somebody make a joke about dead babies. It's fine. Let him joke about it. Let them laugh at how shocking it is.

They absolutely have that right. That's the price we pay for freedom, even if I wish more of us were slightly more capable of empathy.
TWEET
So, on Saturday I tweeted this: "Got 15 minutes into that Ricky Gervais Humanity stand-up 'special' on Netflix last night, and turned it off. Millions in the bank, and a global platform, and that's what you use it for? What a thoroughly unpleasant little man."

And then it began...

"He uses his global platform to tell jokes? The same humour that gave him that global platform & those millions in the bank.....wots surprising about this to you? He’s just doing wot he has always done. U shud watch the rest...the bit about cot death is hilarious!"

"he also makes millions laugh...what's your contribution for breathing the same air? A jealous ego is ugliness personified. "

"It’s hard to get the joke when you are the joke"

"Didums"


"what a fucking cunt this guy is"

He was talking about me in that last one by the way, not Gervais. He'd tagged his mate to show him what a fucking cunt I am.

That was just the tip of the iceberg, though. It carried on for more than two days. It washed over me, not least when I saw how many of the people were Trump supporters (Gervais, of course, being massive in the States). I wasn't remotely bothered by any of it - I know me, and they don't, and based upon his comedic output I'm relatively certain I'm a better and more together, even if not as rich, person than Gervais  - but it still intrigued me. 

These people had, presumably, searched for Gervais, seen my tweet, and thought they should give me a piece of their mind. Why? What the hell is that about? Amiga owners, I sort of get; we were slagging off the Amiga as a dying format, and that stoked their rage. My Gervais tweet didn't tag him, or any of his fans. It's mental. 
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AGREE
For the record, I agree with Gervais when he defends free speech. I just don't think he does it in the most sophisticated way, and that's a shame. The points he makes are route one, and seem more like a defence of his own actions, than any broader belief.

When he uses terms like "Get over it" - as he did in the wake of the Count Dankula Nazi Pug conviction, thus temporarily aligning himself with Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins - I roll my eyes, because it's something you'd expect from a 14 year-old.

But yeah, from a comedian's point of view... having the freedom to joke about anything is important. It's their livelihood, but - unfortunately - not all comedians are created equally. Just as we all have the freedom to drive a car, some of us are better drivers than others.

The best comedians can use shock to make a point, or challenge an audience. When Stewart Lee did his joke about vomiting into the "gaping anus of Christ" - a routine that came from a similar place as Gervais's Caitlyn Jenner skit - there was a weight of craft and intelligence and self-awareness behind it which Gervais simply lacks. 

When Neil Hamburger tells shocking, filthy, jokes about Paris Hilton, or John Stamos, or DJ Diplo, the joke is on the character - an embittered, hateful, terrible stand-up comedian, whose targets seem entirely random. With "Billy Bigot", there doesn't seem to be an enormous amount of separation between character and creator. 

Given Gervais himself, it probably shouldn't surprise me when those defending him aren't the most self-aware and emotionally intelligent people - and think they're defending free speech by defending him. 

It's also depressingly unsurprising that there's a big crossover in the fanbases of Gervais and Donald Trump. Both appear thin-skinned, both seemingly driven by emotion over intellect, both using a global platform to settle personal scores, and neither are above mocking disabled people to get a laugh.

And with that, I shall leave you with my favourite Neil Hamburger joke:

Why did ET the Extra Terrestrial love Reese's Pieces so much? Well, because they have the same flavour that cum does on his own planet.
92 Comments
MT Head
9/5/2018 09:14:10 am

Gervais is someone who is so definitely not mad and so definitely not offended that he's been asked to not be so much of an arsehole, that he's made a Netflix comedy special and constantly rants to his millions of followers about how not mad and offended he his, and how his free speech is being curbed.

Phew, that was quite the run on sentence wasn't it?

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GigerPunk link
9/5/2018 09:24:48 am

A veey well-meaning person tweeted him recently, asking if he would RT my gofundme appeal. I didn't have the heart to tell them I blocked him on Twitter years ago. Bit awkaawk.


(That was *meant* to say awkward, but I like how autocorrect decided awkaawk is a better word)

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PeskyFletch
9/5/2018 06:04:28 pm

It is, objectively.

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penguinface
15/5/2018 03:58:22 am

For seagulls, it is the only word.

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Col. Asdasd
9/5/2018 09:26:24 am

At this point I wouldn't be on twitter if you got paid for it. Toxicity seems to define it.

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Nicolás Acosta
9/5/2018 09:54:53 am

Totally agree. It's about how much you can damage something, which is perfectly feasible in its format.

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RichardM
9/5/2018 11:30:19 am

I actully quite like it and have experienced basically no toxicity because I’m so massively insignificant and rarely post anything. If anything, my problem with it is that I feel like I’m wasting people’s time: but nice people like Mr Biffo and Mr Hairs do reply if you send them messages, when they undoubtedly have other things to do.

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tombo
9/5/2018 09:31:20 am

the problem I had with "invention of lying" - Gervais' character was supposed to be a person who grew up in that world - yet he was shocked by everyone's truth speech, as if he was someone from our world newly arrived in theirs

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Nicolás acosta
9/5/2018 09:53:21 am

I absolutely agree. I almost forgot this movie, but I recall being bugged by this fatal flaw.

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Ian
9/5/2018 11:30:52 am

Of all his post office work (the office is really the only thing of his I like) I feel that film is the biggest wasted opportunity because it's an absolutely tremendous premise, and then they made a terrible film out of it.

colincidence link
9/5/2018 03:32:01 pm

He did post office work?

Balaska
12/5/2018 06:45:20 pm

My problem with The Invention of Lying is when he tells the lady the world will end if she doesn't sleep with him, knowing she will believe him. That's rape.

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Paul
8/4/2022 05:00:35 am

oh come ON. REALLY?? It isn't rape. It's manipulation. She isn't forced, he's not physically forcing her. Just calm down.

David Heslop
9/5/2018 09:40:08 am

But but but... I'm an Amiga owner *and* someone who's got an increasingly low opinion of Ricky Gervais!

I do find it weird when incredibly famous, successful, rich people use their platform to defend themselves to the point of being, well, a bit of a dick. I'm a big fan of Kevin Smith, who was a massive influence on me when I was a teenager trying to be an American screenwriter (quite a task for a boy from Middlesbrough). I bought his book, and there's this section where he details someone attacking him online - on the message board of his own website, I believe. Smith then shows off the huge - like, a whole page - response he gave the guy. And it's presented as if he's tremendously witty and putting a stop to this arsehole on the internet. Now, I can't actually remember how big an arsehole this guy was, but I do remember thinking "come on, Kev, that's a bit much. You're literally a millionaire with thousands and thousands of devoted fans. Isn't this all a bit beneath you? Why not just ignore it and move on?"

I feel like that with Gervais, but times a thousand. If he truly believes he's this trail-blazing iconoclast, telling it like it is, defending free speech and mocking the constraints of political correctness, then he should let the work speak for itself. And comedy is work. I've tried to write jokes; it's very hard. If Gervais was confident in his standpoint he shouldn't worry about having to explain it later.

Also, having seen both a Gervais stand-up show and An Audience With Kevin Smith, I still think Smith is funnier. Don't @ me.

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Nicolás Acosta
9/5/2018 09:57:57 am

Lol, getting personal with casual criticism is like some kind of indie fetish. "it can't get anymore close and personal with the audience getting offended like everyone else" , ignoring that such is a result of reaching a mass audience, and anyone aspiring to such degree should know how to handle that properly.

Anyway, Red State and Tusk are modern masterpieces to me.

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Nicolás Acosta
9/5/2018 09:59:42 am

"Any more" and a "than" is missing.

Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 11:28:17 am

You missed Clerks.

Also how prevalent are The Colleens in Tusk? I hear good things, but I also made the mistake of seeing Yoga Hosers first, which was possibly the worst thing ever filmed.

PeskyFletch
9/5/2018 06:58:54 pm

What are the "colleens"?

Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 07:24:18 pm

The Colleens are two surly but inexplicably well-regarded convenience store employees (both called Colleen) who are played by Johnny Depp’s daughter and Kevin Smith’s daughter in Yoga Hosers, and I believe also in Tusk. They’re kind of obnoxious, but portrayed as being really beloved by all (except bad people) and always right, and as such are never forced to come to any kind of character development at any point in the film. Stuff just happens around them, and they’re great all the time and always know how to handle it.

I think Kevin Smith wanted to write something empowering and action-packed for teen girls, like Scott Pilgrim meets Kick-Ass for girls, but as a 50-something-year-old man and Dad of one of the leads, he made something that managed to just be kind of patronising.

Col. Asdasd
9/5/2018 11:26:58 am

If you cut them, do they not bleed? Nobody is impervious to some randomly received abuse. Everyone feels the impulse to return in kind. And fame makes you that much of more of a target. These people encounter unprovoked hatred on a daily basis.

Remember that this is an article about the perceived toxicity of Gervais' fans. Now you're hauling him and Kevin Smith over the coals for not meeting your standards when responding to online abuse - but in this case, isn't it the detractors, rather than the fans, who are displaying toxicity?

My point being that it's easy to tear someone down if you selectively focus on their worst behaviour - or more tendentiously, the behaviour of other people who happen to like them. It's a very popular smearing tactic when a group of people want to declare someone a persona non grata, be it Trump, Corbyn, Jordan Peterson or Logan Paul.

That doesn't make abusive behaviour okay, but if you pull back and look at the bigger picture, it's really more a case of everyone online having the capacity to be absolutely vile - and a distressing number choosing to indulge in their worst nature. The sickness is in the system, in the way it carves us into tribes and sets us one against the other.

(For what it's worth I thought the Office was genius and Extras was good but I lost interest in his career pretty quickly afterwards. Jokes about trans people and dead babies are not my usual cup of tea.)

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DEAN
9/5/2018 11:36:25 am

Well said Col. but I disagree with the last point.

I think they could be exactly your cup of tea if made with the right amount of milk and sugar.

Col. Asdasd
9/5/2018 12:50:18 pm

Ha. I remember hearing a very funny joke about a trans person and a leper. This was around the turn of the century, when transphobic jokes were very much an acceptable mainstream thing to tell. I'd never repeat that joke today, because in the intervening years I've grown sensitive to the offence it can cause. But does that mean the joke itself has gotten less funny?

I've been reading about that new game, Frostpunk, and all the harsh and cruel laws you can pass to try and stave off the collapse of your colony.

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/05/07/frostpunk-diary/#comments

Thing is, games like this have always encouraged a sort of detachment. They used to be called God Games after all. There's something about reducing large bodies of people into small crowds of abstracted pixels that makes their suffering darkly funny. Games like Black and White let you take pleasure in having citizens eaten, pooped on or used as ammunition. Sim City had those irresistible natural disaster buttons. Why simply restart a level in Lemmings when you could blow them all up in sync? And so on.

So of course the discussion around the game attracts jokes about child labour, cannibalism, and all the other virtual atrocities you can cheerily enact. And it's not long before others arrive in turn, sweeping in to shame them because Modern Slavery Is Still A Thing and aren't they being terribly insensitive about those who died in the Siberian gulags?

... I don't remember where I was going with this. But it did seem related to the subject at hand.

Mark M
9/5/2018 10:11:25 am

Twitter is absolute poison. It's little more than a platform for public trial by the mob for the most innocuous "offences" these days.

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Darth Tinder
9/5/2018 10:14:49 am

No much to add to this other than it's nice to hear you're a fan of the Hamburger. When I heard his standup the first thing I thought was "this guy is just like The Man's Daddy!"

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Biscuits
9/5/2018 11:15:32 am

On Cinema is one of the best comedies ever made imo

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Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 12:58:32 pm

What, you think the miscarriage of justice for the Electric Sun 20 was a joke? Sicko.

Biscuits
9/5/2018 03:02:30 pm

I can't help but find some dark humour in Tim's continued delusions and subsequent hard times, but I have to admit to being sickened by his continual 'rebuffing' of the shows true 'buff', Gregg Turkington

treacle
9/5/2018 10:20:43 am

Ricky Gervais is a gateway drug to being a cunt.

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Stephen
9/5/2018 10:26:11 am

A fine piece of writing and I couldn't agree more!

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Nick
9/5/2018 10:41:00 am

I’ve added him to the list of fans of things I should probably avoid.
You’re doing a public service sir.

Babylon 5.
Amiga.
Atari Jaguar (who knew).
Ricky Gervais.

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Neptunium
9/5/2018 10:46:36 am

I don't really know where to begin with this one.

On one hand I really enjoyed it - it was a nice read, with your usual nice touches about your personal experiences and some deeper truths about fame and fortune. But I disagree with the idea that Stewart Lee's "gravitas" somehow makes his shock more legit. They're both cheap laughs no matter how much time they spent (or didn't) on the bog thinking about it.

On the other hand I just want to say "if you didn't enjoy it Mr. B, just turn it off and do something else, no need to inform the world about it". But then again I'm effectively commenting upon that commentary, making me a complete hypocrite.

Sometimes I hark back to the days of the late 90's, where the internet was for geeks and opinions were relatively well contained within newsgroups where there was a decent barrier to entry (learning to use a news reader, and getting flamed when you violated the rules of nettiquete :-)). Looking back, it was a much gentler era. The current day social meeja with everyone having to immediately voice their opinions, and the joy of those dissenting to be vile and outrageous, makes me worry for my kids future. The internet is what's keeping those vile celebs you've mentioned (Tommy, Hopkins, probably Gervais) relevant - the reason they get their cheques is because of the online outrage they provoke.

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Edwin Starr the singer
9/5/2018 11:33:11 am

I think there's going to be a number of pieces like this that essentially act as a notice of dismissal from intellectuals and comedy types that were previously interested in Gervais

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Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 12:01:52 pm

I find that Stuart Lee is “the comedian’s comedian”, but possibly too much so. If you are interested in comedy as an art form, then his work is a really interesting example of how to do it. But that’s also kind of a problem as I find that I watch his shows thinking “that’s clever” and “that was well-constructed”, but I never actually laugh at it.

As for Gervais, I’m really not a fan as the sneering meanness of a lot of his work often feels like it’s just that without any real value, but I will give him credit for refusing to treat Hollywood with the decorum that it thinks it deserves at the Golden Globes. In that case, much of the sneering meanness of his act was directed at what felt like the right places (at very least the gag at Polanski’s expense was worth it, since Hollywood has given that man far too much slack).

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Neptunium
9/5/2018 12:12:32 pm

I think the same about Stewart Lee. He's the comedy equivalent of a band you can appreciate why everyone loves them to pieces, but you'd lever listen to them yourself.

Gervais was funny back in his 10 O'Clock Alf Garnett-lite days, everything else I just didn't really get. I think "The Office" was spoiled for me because I was abroad when it aired, and by the time it was repeated (remember those pre-youtube/iplayer days when you had to wait for stuff to get re-broadcast?) it was very much a case of the hype oversold the finished product.

Movie Michael
9/5/2018 12:14:01 pm

Whether or not it makes you laugh is not the only sign of finding something funny imo

Col. Asdasd
9/5/2018 12:19:33 pm

Some comedians seem to be better suited for stage or screen. When I went to see Stewart Lee a few years back he was trying out material for his Comedy Vehicle program on the BBC. He brought the house down, had the audience crying with laughter, but whenever I've seen him on telly since I've had that issue of thinking 'oh yes, that's clever' rather than actually laughing.

Conversely I've seen Mitchell and Webb on stage and they were quite dull, whereas their work on television has not unfairly achieved world-wide admiration. 100% anecdotal but there you go.

If you we're talking about stand-ups who really push up against what's considered acceptable, have you seen anything by Bill Burr? His on stage persona is caustic, offensive, the very image of 'toxic masculinity'. I'm amazed he hasn't found himself in the public cross-hairs yet. And yet I like him.

Window Creamer
9/5/2018 12:23:42 pm

How do you see Bill Burr as representing toxic masculinity? I don't see that at all

Mrtankthreat
9/5/2018 12:56:46 pm

I love Bill Burr but there's clearly an element of toxic masculinity there. There's countless YouTube videos showing clips of Bill Burr stuff with titles such as "Burr wrecks feminist SJWs" etc so he appeals to that crowd.

Obviously it's not entirely his fault and I think he does a decent job of distancing himself from it. Certainly if you listen to his podcast he's more (loathed as I am to use the word) woke then when he started and he definitely has more humility than the likes of Gervais.

His whole thing is that he's an idiot and doesn't know. Most of the time he'll say something you might call controversial and then says, ah but what do I know? His wife is also a good influence on him.

It's also this humility that keeps him out of the public cross-hair. If people complain at him he goes, you're probably right but I'm gonna say it anyway. He rarely if ever gets in arguments about it. That's Gervais' whole schtick. If people just ignored him he'd he'd have no act.

P.S.

Kevin Smith is an unfunny nob.

Col. Asdasd
9/5/2018 12:58:51 pm

Well, this is from the 'style' section of his wikipedia page.

"Rolling Stone magazine called Burr "the undisputed heavyweight champ of rage-fueled humor".[26] Burr often portrays himself as "that loud guy in the bar" with "uninformed logic".[27] In an interview with The Boston Globe, Burr stated, "I'm the 'dude, bro' guy."[4] According to Montreal Gazette, Burr is "a cynic and a contrarian who has never paid any heed to political correctness".[28]"

That rings true to me, and is also the sort of language I would think proponents of the existence of a toxic masculinity would use to describe it. Your mileage may vary I guess.

Window Licker
9/5/2018 01:23:29 pm

The tedious mention of political correctness aside, I don't see what any of that has to do with TM. It's exciting saying we like stuff that conforms to it though

Booch
10/5/2018 02:53:34 pm

Bill Burr is ok, I don't find him "toxic" but I don't find him funny either. He reminds me of the typical kind of American comedian that Stewart Lee mocked in that bit where he goes, "...I wouldn't know whether to eat it, or shove it up my ass!"

Biscuits
9/5/2018 11:12:10 am

Ricky Gervais retweeted PIERS MORGAN because Piers said HIS SON liked the new special. No kidding. What a daring bastion of free speech and bravery.

I love The Office, but completely fell out of interest with Gervais after the ending to Life on the Road, which may be one of the most laughably lazy and insulting things I've ever seen

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DEAN
9/5/2018 11:16:52 am

I think the video that you posted did a great job of exposing what a vile little cunt he is!

Can you ever have a good comedian who isn't a sociopath?
I mean, when you get right down to it, they're all cunts, right?

Let's take Steve Coogan for example.... that was easy!

I think they're all great but, c'mon. I don't mean to sound cynical but if you make a living out of taking the piss then you've got to be pretty damn good at it. And we know it's all just business really and he's found a way of having his cake and eating it too - and boy doesn't it show!
But seriously, take all the mainstream comedians today and you have to hand it to Gervais - and though I much prefer Merchant, Lock, Lee..... RG is the only one of the proper heavyweights that has any appeal at all.

I also like Jimmy Carr and he's a great way of illustrating just how talented Ricky Gervais really is. Jimmy Carr would eat them all for breakfast when it comes to shooting from the hip, though - but again, he's an absolute cunt.

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Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 12:07:04 pm

I don’t know about sociopaths, but I think you’d be hard-pressed to find anyone in comedy who was particularly funny bit didn’t have serious mental health issues at least at some point.

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William Nesneck
9/5/2018 12:29:10 pm

I don't think that's true. I like what Harry Shearer says about people being funny because they want to control what others laugh at, but even that rings a bit false.

Spiney O'Sullivan
9/5/2018 01:22:39 pm

Interesting, but doesn't that open up questions about what lies behind that desire or need?

Willy Nesquick
9/5/2018 02:58:22 pm

Yeah, I guess he is saying funny people know they don't fit in and will have the piss taken out of them, so by being funny they can control what people are laughing at. There ARE funny attractive successful people though

MENTALIST
9/5/2018 11:32:44 am

Language in the comments today is more than a little fruity.

Of course it's Biffo's own fault for opening the cuntgates.

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DEAN
9/5/2018 11:37:50 am

That honour, I believe, must go to Mr Gervais - he made a the air blue with 'that' word in his standup special.

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RichardM
9/5/2018 12:30:07 pm

A word I struggle with a lot. Isn’t there something grossly sexist in considering it the ‘worst’ or ‘most shocking’ swearword? I swear like a trooper IRL, but it’s one word I just hate hearing. And don’t get me started on casual references to mental health! That’s mad, crazy, etc, etc.

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PilchardM
9/5/2018 12:43:12 pm

Sometimes people act in a manner not befitting established codes of understanding, or their behaviour is just hard to figure out, so we say they are acting crazy. I have never heard anyone apply that term to the mentally ill

DEAN
9/5/2018 01:06:21 pm

My mother would still hit me across the head if she heard me say it!

I’ve been in groups of people where it’s very much been every other word but I can’t say I found it offensive for any reason. Funny after a while perhaps!

In Bruges has a great one!

Crazy, mad.... oh, man, I know exactly where you’re coming from but again I’d Be lying if I said I had a problem with it. It’s so ubiquitous by this point - not saying that makes it right but, at least for me, it doesn’t even register - much like blasphemy really.

One that did catch me though was how young people went through a phase of using gay as a deragotory term.

RichardM
9/5/2018 02:24:11 pm

But you don’t have to apply it to a mentally ill person! It’s an indicator of endemic stigma against the mentally ill. Same as what Dean said about ‘gay’ as a term of abuse amongst kids, but much more entrenched.

PilchardM
9/5/2018 02:54:47 pm

But gay people would refer to themselves as gay...

RichardM
9/5/2018 03:29:12 pm

They would, and are entitled to use whatever label they want to apply to themselves, just as mentally ill people can refer to themseves however they want: but casually using such a label as a term of abuse or to attribute a negative quality to something isn’t right.

Window felcher
9/5/2018 03:36:41 pm

I still don't think 'crazy' relates to mental illness anymore than 'silly' though

RichardM
9/5/2018 04:30:24 pm

crazy
ˈkreɪzi

informal

adjective

1.
mad, especially as manifested in wild or aggressive behaviour.
"Stella went crazy and assaulted a visitor"
synonyms: mad, insane...

Brab face
10/5/2018 11:38:42 am

Is this you conceding?

Irritated
9/5/2018 12:54:47 pm

I’m not a fan of Gervais at all, but I actually like him a little more after reading this. Please at least try and get over yourself. Cringed at the stuff about the 11 O’Clock Show stealing your material, and that Gervais saw you as a rival. All a bit ‘it could have been me!’. Them’s the breaks, kid.

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does Gervais have a google alert set up
9/5/2018 01:03:45 pm

Reading is difficult sometimes isn't it? What I do before going off on a self-righteous rant though, is assume I was the one that made an error, and check the material again. For example:

"Gervais saw you as a rival. All a bit ‘it could have been me!’"

actually stems from

"I didn't think much more of it, but got the sense that he'd sized me up, and I was left with the impression that there was a bit of professional rivalry. Not that he had any clue who I was - why would he?" which seems to have been written to immediately assuage the fears of those that continually look for signs of somebody else's ego (a character trait that ironically reflects poorly on themselves in much the same manner).

If you try re-reading stuff I'm sure your life will be a lot easier

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Mr Biffo
9/5/2018 01:57:35 pm

Well, like I wasn't expecting these beautifully self-aware and not in any way ironic comments!!!!!!!

thebiglloydtree
9/5/2018 05:19:05 pm

Honestly i've never understood the appeal of gervais, he always seemed a bit like david brent in denial - naff but not actually realising it. Then of course, he went full on internet atheist and people kissed his backside. Then he came out going for low hanging fruit, and people kissed his arse.

Yeah, take a shot at caitlyn jenner, that's fine. Nobody and nothing is or should be beyond criticism, but is it really that hard to put your ego at the door? If people are pissed off at you, that's ok. Say whatever the hell you want, i'll defend your right to do so to the death.

But acting like the bigger person than the people getting offended, when you're wearing your offence on your sleeve? Take a seat mr gervais. You've never been all that relevant.

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Booch
9/5/2018 05:42:45 pm

When I first read your comments about this, I guessed there was more to your feelings than just disliking a comedy show/comedian. I guessed there was something personal, and this piece you've written seems to confirm that. This (and a few other things you've written) suggest you hold some bitterness from your earlier years in trying to make it in TV comedy.

I've seen some of his more rabid fans acting obnoxiously in the past, and I'm not denying that phenomenon exists, but let's be fair here; you didn't just criticise "Humanity", you called Gervais a "thoroughly unpleasant little man." You're entitled to that opinion and you have every right to express it, but perhaps you shouldn't be so surprised when people attack you for it. I'm sure if someone with some public presence (as you have, with a "verified" twitter account to boot) slagged you off in a similar manner, then fans of yours would come out to defend you too.

Some of the associations you try to make in this are absurd. Saville, Tommy Robinson, Katie Hopkins and Donald Trump. Really? I guess David Baddiel (who is Jewish) and Shappi Khorsandi are also "aligned" with Robinson then by that logic, because they also defended the nazi pug thing.

You suggest there is a "big crossover" between the fanbase of Gervais and Trump. What are you using as the basis for this assertion? It seems to be nothing more than what you noticed from some the people slagging you off on twitter. It seems extremely unlikely to me that this crossover exists given that Gervais is 1: A very vocal atheist (which hardly fits the profile of an average Trump supporter), and 2: has been very critical of Donald Trump.

Watch the video on youtube titled "Ricky Gervais' Hilarious Put-Down To Donald Trump" and check out all the comments from Trump supporters calling Gervais all the usual Trumpy insults.

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Mr Biffo
9/5/2018 05:48:45 pm

I base the link between Gervais and Trump fans entirely on the fact that most of the people who sent me shitty tweets in defence of Gervais were also Trump supporters.

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Mr Biffo
9/5/2018 05:50:18 pm

Though obviously I generalise.

Correlation is not caustic soda
10/5/2018 10:09:29 am

Yes! I blame Nicholas Cage for people who drown in pools: https://ibb.co/kXPx5d

noodlecake
2/12/2018 11:30:53 pm

Ricky Gervais has an insanely huge following. Within that following there are people with all kinds of views, tastes and political leanings. There are hardcore vegans, socialists, liberals, nazis, Jeremy Corbyn supporters, Thatcherites... etc. All in huge numbers.

Considering that, don't you think that maybe the handful of them who are vile enough to be awful to you on Twitter might just happen to be awful enough to be fans of Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins? You're not going to get attacked on Twitter by nice people with nice views. It's most likely going to be the Trump supporters and nazis.

I don't think it really says anything about Ricky Gervais that a handful of his fans are assholes with disgusting views. If he had ten fans, and all ten were Katie Hopkins fans then you might have a good point.

Mr Glitter
9/5/2018 05:51:07 pm

"when he uses terms like "Get over it" - as he did in the wake of the Count Dankula Nazi Pug conviction, thus temporarily aligning himself with Tommy Robinson and Katie Hopkins - I roll my eyes, because it's something you'd expect from a 14 year-old."

So if Robinson, Hopkins or Hermann Göring said that child molesters are bad, you would take the opposite line because you don't want to be aligned with them?

Now that is what I call a childish tribal argument.

I am sure Robinson and Hopkins have a lot of views that I agree with. That murder is bad, theft is bad, spitting out chewing gum onto the pavement is bad.

The Dankula conviction was BS and dangerous for comedy. A court deciding that context is irrelevant is terrifying.

The Pug joke was mocking National Socialists. I didn't see Neo Nazi groups or the antisemitic Labour party supporting Dankula.

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Mr Biffo
9/5/2018 05:54:26 pm

Guess I must be wrong.

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Robobob
9/5/2018 07:11:21 pm

(a) Terrifying pick of <Bianca voice> Riiiiiicckkaaaaayyyy!!!! at the top o' the screen there.
(b) Loved The Office, and loved the cartoon podcast one (The Ricky Gervais Show, or whatever it was called, although that one was more due to Merchant/Pilkington I reckon). Everything else "Gervaised" - no thanks.
(c) I feel a little sad somehow that the Avengers post got like 80 comments and this got 60 and that the Super Bad Advice Nintendo Labo post (which was really good) got like 5 even though this is Digitiser2000, but I'm also acutely aware that I read all three and didn't post on the Switch one and I did post on this one so it's partly my fault too and I'm a total hypocrite now. What's that all about then, eh?

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Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 07:37:16 pm

Unfortunately for the Labo, it’s really only of interest if you’re a 7-year-old or the parent of a 7-year-old. I’m not even being mean, it’s a neat toy, but just not that relevant to a lot of people who are reading videogame sites. I’m really not sure what most people who don’t fall into those demographics would have to say about it that is of any value. It’s just not for us.

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Smilin' Peter
9/5/2018 07:38:25 pm

The last Gervais project I paid attention to was his podcast series with Stephen Merchant and Karl Pilkington.

Loved it at first. But then it became apparent that most of the humour was based around insulting poor Karl. After that, the bullying streak in much of Gervias' work became all too obvious.

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Spiney O’Sullivan
9/5/2018 08:44:46 pm

Yeah, poor Karl’s bit in that show was being treated like some kind of dancing monkey by Gervais. I’d like to think he was in on the joke, but I was never quite sure.

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Neptunium
9/5/2018 08:20:34 pm

Thought you'd enjoy this link I just found on reddit, explains a lot: https://thebaffler.com/latest/what-happened-to-ricky-gervais-james

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Mr Biffo
9/5/2018 09:20:06 pm

Ouch. Much better put than I managed.

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Timbot
9/5/2018 09:51:02 pm

"I can't expect the childless Gervais and his fans to understand why it might be upsetting to hear somebody make a joke about dead babies."

What

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K9's Biggest Fan
9/5/2018 09:51:41 pm

I have very mixed feelings about Ricky Gervais. He's undoubtedly a talented comedy writer and (to a much lesser extent) performer. In the early 2000s he had some genuinely interesting things to say about the nature of celebrity and fame. The Office remains one of my favourite comedies and I also liked Extras a lot too (I think Mr Biffo's criticism of series two is fair but I still enjoyed it; ultimately RG's character comes across as a twat for the most part so I don't think it's as harsh on fans of more broad comedy as some do).

However, as time has gone on the quality of his output has decreased significantly to the point where some of it is just shit. Maybe I'm just a bit simple-minded, but to me the likes of Special Correspondents and Humanity, once you strip away the window dressing of political commentary, just aren't funny or even interesting. In fact I would go as far as to say that they are as broad as the comedy he indirectly criticises in Extras, with Humanity in particular trading cheap shocks for laughs.

Having once followed his work quite closely, I think that stuff like Humanity betrays a deeper flaw on RG's part: he seems to have lost all sense of self-perspective.

I remember listening to one of his podcasts about 10 years ago in which a mildly interesting anecdote about him meeting a former police negotiator was on the back of a lengthy intro in which RG described himself being whisked into a hotel via limo and past the assembled A-listers on the red carpet. It served no purpose other than to show off about how well he was being treated because of his fame.

Before this, in his Fame stand up, he casually makes reference to having spent £300 on Christmas crackers and losing £6,000 playing poker. He began this particular show by walking on stage wearing a crown and cloak. Maybe some of this was him being ironic, but it was lost on me.

And now, as Mr Biffo says, I'm not sure he appreciates how petty, thin-skinned, and plain vindictive he comes across with the sort of material he came up with for Humanity.

My point is I very much get the impression that he's lost perspective, and genuinely doesn't realise (or care) how he comes across anymore. He's now one of these tedious celebrities that he used to criticise and lampoon.

More simply, I just don't think he's been funny or interesting for about a decade or so now. As many others have said, his work is far inferior when he's not working with Steven Merchant.

Incidentally, I'm sure I once saw him call someone a c**t on Twitter for whinging about his tweets while still following him. I've not got the time or patience to go back and find this message, but if I'm right then he's arguable a hypocrite too. If he finds the criticism of his comedy in the media and on Twitter so vexing, then why doesn't he simply go back to wherever he came from? If I didn't like an element of my job then I would do something about it besides just piss and moan about it.

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Jim
9/5/2018 11:20:17 pm

So many long comments, wasn't expecting to have to scroll so far! just wanted to say that I used to find Gervais very funny, but he has definitely changed for the worse, he comes across as a bit of a prick these days. Humanity was the not funny at all, I completely share your view on it, it is a shame as a lot of his earlier work was very good.

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James Walker link
9/5/2018 11:57:34 pm

Whatevs. That muppets film he did was seriously rank. Innit!?
He was the biggest muppet in it! Innit!?!

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Gaming Mill link
10/5/2018 12:13:42 am

Balls to Gervais; I'm still really pissed off that the Amstrad CPC464 port of Paperboy didn't have any audio whatsoever.

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Sir Delbaxalot
10/5/2018 12:53:22 am

Having met Mr Gervais a few times in a professional capacity I have to say his stage/twitter/Brent persona's are really not all that dissimilar from the man himself.
I found him as someone acutely aware he was a bit out of his depth which made him extra spiky when it comes to criticism.
Personally I loved The Office, thought Extras was a pretty good follow up, Derek to just be 'meh' and his stand up started pretty well but then slid into a lot of 'look at me and how un-PC I am'.

It's a shame as his stand up can be genuinely pretty good when he steers away from the cliched and self obsession.
I've got no problems at all with the material he chooses, nothing should really be out of bounds for a comedian it's just for my tastes the way he chooses to undercut some of his thornier subjects is a little too much like kids on a playground using 'your mum' jokes ad infinitum. There's nothing wrong with a good "Your Mum" joke every now and again, it's sometimes if you use it all the time you're gonna have to prepared to cop it when you say 'Your Mum is...." and then find out their Mum is in fact, dead.
A fair comparison would be someone like Frankie Boyle who doesn't care what and who his material is about but has the intelligence to back up his comments with wit without having to attack the people who are critical.

You know, put yourself in the media crosshairs by attempting 'edgy' material you've got to be prepared when people don't agree with either your subject matter or the clumsy way in which you go after it.

Stewart Lee to me is the comedy version of Bjork or Radiohead. You can't say you don't like them without people saying 'it's just that you don't understand it, it operates on a higher level'.
I find myself classifying Stewart Lee as comedy in the same manner I would classify David Attenborough programs as the Karma Sutra. It's insightful, well put together and I learn a lot of stuff from it but I'd never go up to the wife and start biting her on the back of neck and flapping my arms whilst trying to do it 'canine style' (although she would probably be up for this as it would mean she wouldn't have to stare at my gurning face throughout the act)

Oh but yeah, the point I've completely missed. Gervais's fans. Yeah blinkered as fuck.

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DEAN
10/5/2018 10:16:09 am

See, the thing is that I'm a massive fan of Stewart Lee and yet I don't think he deserves all the praise he gets but do think he deserves more success.

I've seen all his stuff several times and been to see him live twice - the guy is brilliant but he's also, like many comedians, a bit of a one trick pony and the last season of Comedy Vehicle, though great, definitely had the air of a man on his laurels about it.

Ricky Gervais, I like his stuff too, and sure he keeps playing the same character but when you go and see Metallica you want to hear them play Sandman, right?

I don't think it's fair to say that any of us really know the man well enough to judge him so personally. Maybe the guy is a real dick - so what? Maybe Lee is too - again, who gives a fuck - we're not mates with him or his brother-in-law that has to put up with his bullshit at family gatherings.

He has a right to say what he likes and people have a right to be offended. He is getting the numbers, though and so he's got to be getting it right from the point of view of: "Let's just shift some bloody units"!

The bit that pushed the line for me personally was the bit about Caitlyn Jenner. I squirmed a bit thinking to myself how this wasn't very nice but then I learned something new - the concept of dead-naming. New to me and now I know it's something I would avoid doing. He said the exact same..... and then went on to dead-name over and over again. Early in his show he was telling jokes that he would never, ever tell.... heavy-handed nod to something Stewart Lee has toyed around with in a have you cake and eat it too play.

I think as a comedian he genuinely is trying to push the limit of what he can get away with and take risks to give the best show he's capable of. And let's say a reformed new & improved RG came out and did a really good-natured show.... more Simpsons less Family Guy.... who wants that? Merchant's not getting those numbers - but gosh he deserves to.

So it's like this - buy a pub and split it in two - in one half staff it with feminists and in the other staff it with topless 'dollybirds'.

Give it 6 months and then make a decision which half to close and pay the price of that - money or ethics.

You'd be amazed how many ways you'll come up with for justifying taking the money - we're all capable of rationalising anything - and there'll be plenty of people trying to encourage you but it's your decision. Ricky chose tits and who knows what you'd chose but I can tell you this, it's easier to make that decision when you don't actually need to.... either way.

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Nick
10/5/2018 01:23:00 pm

I'm gonna feel uncomftable around the 'dollybirds' so I'll have a pint in the other side. Besides, I always thought Germaine Greer would be a right laugh pissed. What with being Australian and all.

Booch
10/5/2018 02:41:43 pm

I'm not which side of the pub you'd find Germaine Greer on, modern feminists despise her!

Nick
10/5/2018 02:55:42 pm

I didn’t say it wouldn’t get lively.

THX 1139
10/5/2018 01:31:39 am

Couldn't last more than three episodes of The Office, it was basically "Workplace Bullying: The Comedy". Derek was the most expensive backpedalling after publically insulting those with learning difficulties ever. No wonder he brings out the worst in people.

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Ade
10/5/2018 10:16:07 am

Just read on Den of Geek that Netflix have commissioned a series from Ricky Gervais about a chap who - after a life changing personal tragedy - decides to go around 'telling it like it is regardless of the consequences'.
Eyeroll emoji.

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DEAN
10/5/2018 10:22:21 am

A little bit like Curb Your Enthusiasm.... could be great!

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mikeyc
10/5/2018 11:32:57 am

so weird that in the few comments disagreeing with you they are all fairly personal attacks? Like if I disagreed with you, I'd be like "Oh, it's just a small minority... not all of us are like that!"

I say weird: what I really mean is "predictable"

(similarly I've always been a fan of the Smiths, but if you said "Morrissey is a bad racist" I would say "yes :-(" rather than "no maybe YOU are a bad racist")

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S Hawke
10/5/2018 12:07:32 pm

To be fair, there are also plenty of personal attacks on Ricky Gervais in the comments.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
10/5/2018 02:32:28 pm

I'm fairly sure that Morrissey is the reason someone invented the idea of separating art from artist.

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Tyronne Mann
6/7/2020 10:31:09 am

Twitter has become poisonous with the `you are either with us or against us` mentality, the `cancellation` of various people because they are not allowed to have thoughts or beliefs of their own or a persons worth is soley the political party they follow.
Twitter is not the World thankfully and I have given some serious consideration to actually leaving it, it is only being able to have a laugh with people that keeps me on it.

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