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PEWDIEPIE: NAZI OR DICKHEAD? - by Mr Biffo

16/2/2017

71 Comments

 
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So, Pewdiepie has gone and done it again. You can't have missed the news that the World's Biggest YouTuber - real name Felix Arvid Ulf Kjellberg - has been accused of anti-semitism, after several of his videos featured apparent pro-Nazi imagery.

In one video, a clip - bought from crowd-sourcing site Fiverr - shows two men holding up a sign reading "Death to All Jews", as Pewdiepie cackles hysterically, insisting: "I’m not anti-Semitic or whatever it’s called".

This, and other similarly dubious content, has led to Disney dropping the YouTuber from their Maker network, YouTube Red pulling the second series of Scare Pewdiepie, and ejecting him from their lucrative preferred advertising programme. Ultimately, it's not going to affect Pewdiepie - his 53 million, mostly young (and therefore mostly impressionable), viewers will see to that.

Nevertheless, Pewdiepie issued a statement reiterating that he's not anti-semitic or whatever it's called - "I want to make one thing clear: I am in no way supporting any kind of hateful attitudes" -  while also being supported in turn by the hateful neo-Nazi website The Stormer.

In a since-deleted piece on their site, attributed to "Zeiger", The Stormer wrote: "Some may ask 'Is Pewdiepie really racist? Is he really a Nazi? Does he really want to kill all Jews?' Who knows. He could be doing all this only to cause a stir things up and get free publicity. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter, since the effect is the same; it normalizes Nazism, and marginalizes our enemies."

And that's the Nazis themselves saying that...
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BIRO ON BAGS
I don't know what it's like now, but when I was at school, swastikas were everywhere; scratched into desks, or scrawled in Biro onto bags.

School textbooks were full of photos that had been doctored with graffiti to show the subjects with Adolf Hitler moustaches (and, usually, over-optimistic genitalia). I remember lots of my classmates being tremendously amused by a photo of a Hitler moustache-sporting slave wearing a collar with four metal rods extending from it, above which somebody had written the word "Helicopter".

It's sad to say that, when I was a kid, racism as a whole was pretty normalised. I wish that hadn't been the case, but - I suspect - the majority of those I went to school with grew up to know better. In my experience, kids would find any difference and exploit it for their own amusement, be it religion, race, or - in my case - wearing glasses. 

On the whole, kids would draw a swastika or the initials "NF" on lockers and walls because they thought it was funny - not because they were legitimate Nazis or National Front supporters. And they found it funny because they knew it was taboo. Albeit without really understanding why. That doesn't make it right, of course, though it doesn't make them automatically wrong. But then, most schoolchildren aren't 27 year-old men, with 53 million fans...

One day in middle school, my teacher Mrs Padel went mental at Stuart Moore, because he'd drawn a swastika on his rubber. The thing I remember most about the incident is that it was clearly the first time anybody in that class had ever understood the power of that symbol, and what it represented. Mrs Padel, from her reaction, was clearly raw when it came to the swastika, and we were all taken aback. Even Stuart Moore - a boy so bright that he insisted everybody call him "Mongy".

He was ignorant - we'd all been ignorant up until that moment. You can't blame people for ignorance, least of all kids, but - at the same time - it's no defence. Mrs Padel letting rip at Stuart Moore and the rest of us, on the significance of the swastika, taught us all a lesson. That's generally how we learn, after all.

Mrs Padel's rage has always stayed with me, and I hope that some of the outcry over Pewdiepie's "Ha ha - Nazis... not really!!!" videos will filter through to his audience in a similar way.

​Although I can't say I'm optimistic about that.

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AN IDIOT MAN
​Being a 27 year-old man who behaves like an idiot is kind of Pewdiepie's USP, but I suspect that is the real him.

For whatever reason, he has remained the kid who hangs around with boys from the year below, because they think he's cool, while everyone in his year and above thinks he's an immature twat.

And that's ultimately it; I doubt Pewdiepie is a Nazi or anti-semitic. As successful as he is, I doubt he's smart enough to have a conviction of any significant strength one way or another.

Part of Pewdiepie's appeal seems to be in is his unfilteredness. If you've ever watched one of his Let's Play videos they're pretty much stream-of-consciousness; he's not hiding behind a persona. Though his more controversial behaviour would appear to have had a degree of preparation behind it, I doubt he gave any of it a great deal of thought. I mean, anyone with a sliver of brain would've realised "Death to all Jews" was a bad idea. I suspect he wanted to shock, and aimed to get a laugh through that shock. 

It's baffling to me that he wouldn't stop to consider how any Jewish viewers might react to this, let alone Disney, but I've seen it in my day job, in writing rooms; to get to the funny stuff, I've witnessed rooms full of otherwise politically correct writers veer into some shockingly politically-incorrect cul-de-sacs. 

I mean, even when I used to go and 'break' stories for My Parents Are Aliens, before we got to the material which became the episode, we'd entertain absurdly dark and surreal plots which we knew would never get onto kids TV.

That doesn't make it right, but for some writers it seems that comedy writing works by switching off your conscience, and then letting the subconscious free. When I briefly worked on My Family, the motto was "What happens in the writing room stays in the writing room". 

MOTIVATION
While that may explain Pewdiepie's motivation, it doesn't really excuse it. Sitcom writers aren't being filmed (though many of them would say yes to anything, if they thought they'd get an audience of 53 million).

The trouble with Pewdiepie - and part of this is due to the nature of having to continually feed the YouTube monster - is that he seemingly doesn't take the time to consider the consequences of who he is, and what he does. Maybe he doesn't want to have that responsibility - he never asked for 53 million fans after all; that's almost as many people as voted for Donald Trump.

Unfortunately, Pewdiepie does have that influence, power, and reach, and in the current global climate it matters what he says, even if he doesn't think it does.

Calling him a Nazi or a white supremacist is missing the point and is counter-productive. Steering him - in the way that Mrs Padel steered my class way back when - would be far more effective, and hats off to Disney and YouTube for trying to teach him a lesson.

​Hopefully he'll continue to mature, and maybe one day look back on his 27 year-old self and realise what an irresponsible dick he used to be.

FROM THE ARCHIVE:
READ ABOUT THESE 10 WEIRD EDUCATIONAL GAMES - YOU MIGHT ACTUALLY LEARN SOMETHING
​
YOUTUBE RED ALERT BY MR BIFFO

GENERATION YOUTUBE MAKES ME SICK - BY MR BIFFO
71 Comments
wunk
16/2/2017 11:24:25 am

My biggest take from this story - and it makes me very happy is - I genuinely do not know who this man is, and have never heard of him.

The world seems to be turning into one giant cock.

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Nick
16/2/2017 11:50:59 am

27 Years old!!!! Good lord what a bellend.

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CrackleSnacks
16/2/2017 01:38:11 pm

Wow, this is the kind of thing I would expect from someone in their early teens, late at a push. 27 is very risable

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Paddy Hill
16/2/2017 11:54:06 am

An interesting and (as always) well written article (dead right about the schoolkids attitude in the 70's and 80's) - but really he's just a dick with a camera. Which, of course, is a potential danger to us all :)

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Acid_Arrow
16/2/2017 12:01:27 pm

An interesting and thoughtful article, I've tried to sit through some of his videos before to see what the fuss is about but I guess I'm not his target audience as it just seemed like a lot of weird noises and screaming to me.

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Jabberwoc
16/2/2017 12:13:49 pm

It boils down to this, Biffo.
He is a very silly young man and you are lovely and old. Like me.

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Dr. Budd Buttocks, MD
16/2/2017 12:31:25 pm

The worst part of all this is how someone with such an enormous following makes such desperately, mind-bendingly uninspired and unfunny content.

"Ironic" use of nazi slogans and symbolism as an excuse for shock humour is nothing new on the internet. Neither is the exploitation of cultural ignorance and people who have reduced themselves to agreeing to almost anything to try and make a living on these microworker sites. Combining all those things together? It's been done.

Pewdiepie probably vaguely thought he could dress up his lazy humour as having some sort of powerful and subversive underlying message. But I don't think he really thought it through. Unfortunately we now live in a time where it's no longer excusable to get your laughs out of any kind of extremism, no matter how ironic it might be.

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Biscuits the character
16/2/2017 01:43:45 pm

The soothing balm of a Dr. Buttocks cogitation comes through again

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Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 01:03:28 pm

It is beyond me why Disney decided to go into partnership with a man whose videos featured him swearing at videogames and shrieking about how he was being "raped" by them (before he stopped doing it after he was called out).

Usually Disney stars are meant to go into a phase of being desperately "edgy" after they leave Disney, not before they even get there.

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jawa
16/2/2017 01:10:08 pm

You're kinda right, Biffo... it'd be hard to disagree with your viewpoint. But... I dunno, your article feels a bit like you're looking down from some kind of moral high ground.

Before anyone starts screaming with rage, I don't condone the video. Sure, PewDiePie seems to have been a silly and, yes, there is never an excuse for racism. But from watching the video, I feel that context Is important. The guy was demonstrating that the mentioned website seemed willing to do almost anything for money. Yes, even offensive things like casual racism. PewDiePie seemed shocked that the website would actually do whatever people said for money.

I agree that the guy has presented this in the wrong style. It was an error of judgement and... really silly. PewDiePie has a lot of viewers and he should have been way more careful in how he presented his work.

But it's easy - and, to most folk, obvious - to say "racism is bad". We kinda know that and, sure, we shouldn't accept it. For an alternative viewpoint on PewDiePie's video, try checking out H3H3's video response.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 01:18:21 pm

Is it really much better that the punchline of the joke is "look at these desperate people who have traded their dignity for a pittance from people on the internet!"?

Though to be fair, that was Pewdiepie's business model, and it's worked out well for him...

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Nick
16/2/2017 01:29:56 pm

Ooohh! Now we're getting really meta. Are we not all Pewdiepie?

No. Your right. He's a bellend trying to make a stupid video seem edgy by exploiting poor people over the internet.

Boswelox
16/2/2017 01:31:11 pm

What's the alternative to 'racism is bad'? I don't watch Youtube stuff

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Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 02:09:03 pm

Well, yeah. I take your point but... y'know... I absolutely take the moral high ground here.

Case in point: I've been making Found Footage, and struggled with my conscience when it comes to two sequences... One features somebody drawing a dream they had - and in the current edit you very briefly see a swastika as part of the drawing... and the other has a cartoon Hitler living in someone's fridge.

Now... neither of those bits feature statements like "Death to all Jews" or "Hitler did nothing wrong"... yet both of them I've struggled with, because I don't really know what the point I'm making is.

Why use that sort of imagery unless there's a good reason to, and a point to be made? When done en masse it does normalise it... and once it becomes normal it becomes easy for people to use it as a backdoor into the mainstream.

So yeah... fuck it. I totally take the moral high ground. Heck - you want me to go all-in with my arrogance, I'll even take the creative and intellectual high ground when it comes to Pewdiepie.

As for that H3H3 video - which I've now watched - he's sort of looking at the accusations of Pewdiepie being antisemitic, which tangential to what I'm discussing, given that I don't think Pewdiepie is antisemitic or a Nazi.

And besides, his defence of Pewdiepie - a mate of his - is basically "It was a joke" or "He was trying to make a point"... which doesn't wash for me as any sort of defence. I don't think the context of Pewdiepie's videos remotely makes a difference in this instance.

If the point he's making is that you could get people on Fiverr to say anything - and Christ knows I have - why does it have to be those particular statements?

If you've got actual Nazis saying "he's our guy", then it's time to maybe question what it is you're offering.

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jawa
16/2/2017 03:44:50 pm

It was crass, Biffo, and I think the guy should have thought it over a bit more. Of course, I don't know PewDiePie but it would seem more likely that it was foolish behaviour that got out of hand. That's not to say I'm trivalising his mistake, but I also feel wary of jumping aboard the train to condemnation that often builds up with news stories.

The guy was a bit foolish and he probably realises this now. It's a fair cop when people call him out on it. Personally, I don't feel he acted to cause harm through intentional provocation. But, hey, maybe I'm too lenient.

As for the "actual Nazis saying 'he's our guy' "... oh, come on, dude. Horrible people are always trying to find ways of legitimising their hate and that just feels like some oaf trying to gain publicity off the back of a foolish vid.

Nick
16/2/2017 03:57:04 pm

In the 80's Madness wrote a song to address their far right fans and distance themselves from the horrible people.

Perhaps now is the time for Pewdiepie's anti-fascist 2 Tone magnum opus.

Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 04:06:55 pm

If we can get a resurgence of second wave ska from this, I'm all for it.

Kendall9000
16/2/2017 08:18:26 pm

Are those actual Nazis actually serious about him being "their guy", or is that just a bit of trolling on their part? A way for them to get some mainstream publicity on the back of a vaguely related kerfuffle?

Now I'm tempted to go on Fiverr and get some poor bugger to dress up as a Nazi and wave around a 'Digitiser2000 = Filth' banner. Fortunately I'm way too cheap and lazy.

mrbubbles
16/2/2017 01:46:25 pm

#resistpewdiepie #pewdiepiedid9/11

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John Veness
16/2/2017 01:49:38 pm

Never mind all that, what's going on with his tongue in the top pic?

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wunk
16/2/2017 03:12:20 pm

Tongue? I thought it was Satan's cock...

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Darth Tinder
16/2/2017 01:52:14 pm

On a tangent, I reckon 'ol Pewps is three years tops from a conversion to the Church of Scientology.

Seriously, calling it now.

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Kara Van Park
16/2/2017 02:24:03 pm

Could you imagine a sketch show like Monty Python Or Spike Milligan's Q... getting made these days?

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Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 02:30:40 pm

Well, no. For a lot of reasons. I love Python and Milligan, but the casual sexism and racism sits uncomfortably with me. That said, I can see it as the product of its time. I'd hoped we're a bit more enlightened now.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 02:51:55 pm

I know what you mean. I loved the League of Gentlemen when it came out, and I still think it's some of the best dark comedy ever aired, but the Babs' Cabs bits don't sit that well with me these days. I guess it's something about how most of the characters are awful or outright evil, so they're valid targets, but there's not much about Babs (beyond a tendency towards TMI) that's actively bad or worthy of making fun of when you think about it.

Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 02:58:55 pm

Yeah, good example. I'd forgotten about Bab's Cabs. I'm sure some people would go "Oh, it's political correctness gone mad - you can't do a sketch with a transgender cab driver"... but actually, given that the world IS more aware and enlightened, what exactly was the joke there anyway? "Oh! The cab driver is transgender! Ha ha ha."

I mean, I've written before that I sometimes think political correctness goes too far, and is counterproductive, then there are instances like this when you realise what it has given us.

DEAN
16/2/2017 03:08:34 pm

Completely calculated career move - loads of publicity and out of all(?) existing contractual obligations.
See Jeremy Clarkson and Jonathon Ross.

That's my gut feeling anyway.

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Clive Peppard
17/2/2017 01:53:20 pm

babs cabs was a little dubious but if we're calling out the league we're going to enter a rabbit hole where none of us might be smart enough to grasp gatiss et als master plan:

theatre company legs akimbo, motto "put yourself into a child"

papa lazarous blackface

incest

I wouldnt second guess Reece Shearsmith - he's quite scary even out of character, all i know is its bloody funny and very clever

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Mr Biffo
17/2/2017 09:36:06 pm

Yeah, fair point.

Spiney O'Sullivan
17/2/2017 11:05:28 pm

It still seems like Babs was one of the few characters whose existence was the joke (as well as her more unfortunate tendency to give too much information to strangers). By comparison, Papa Lazarou was a monster in blackface who routinely abducted women, Legz Akimbo's Olly Plimsoles was a vicious, jealous dick, Tubbs and Edward were incestuous murderers, Pauline was a pen-obsessed fascist who delighted in enforcing her petty authority over the hopeless, Hillary Bros may have been serving human meat, and then there's Herr Lipp... All these characters are (hilarious) monsters in their own way, so they're fine targets for humour, because their actions are outrageous and shocking. Babs was just trans, but not particularly feminine. The joke just doesn't feel like one that's the done thing to make anymore.

I'm not saying this makes the League monsters, or that they should be shamed forever for a joke made a decade and half ago that now feels outdated in hindsight, and I generally love what they do (Inside No 9 had some brilliant and very dark stuff), but it just feels a bit odd to watch some bits of the show now.

Also yes, Reese Shearsmith is amazing at switching between normal and bizarre. I once saw him being interviewed, and he just took the piss out of the more stupid questions. It was great.

Roy (Stuart N Hardy fan)
3/3/2017 01:19:18 pm

'Wood in the babes' from Psychoville.

Guffaw.

Keith
16/2/2017 03:29:02 pm

I feel like I'm living in a parallel reality, in which people say "you can't say anything without being called racist" when in reality there are racist things being said all the time, publicly, with no consequences.

Even when Mr Biffo says "pc has gone too far", I disagree - political correctness has been successfully portrayed as having gone too far, and there are a few outliers who have very specific ideas about language reasonable person could be expected to stick to (eg, never assume someone's gender in case they are trans. Never going to happen)

But generally, it feels like we had a very brief period in the late 90s and 2000's where generally the argument about public discourse had been more or less won - homophobia, racism etc didn't happen publicly. But in recent years we have played out, over and over again, this thing of someone saying something that is racist, before they get defended as not being racist.

It's why this "is pewdiepie a Nazi" is misleading - of course he's not a Nazi. He's not a member of the nazi party, and he probably isn't actively pursuing, or passively believing in their ideals.
But what he is is a further sign that what is mainstream is being moved further and further to the vocabulary of the far right, and pulling someone up on it gets you accused of taking offence.

I'm genuinely curious about when PC has actually gone too far - PC is only what people use it for, and I don't think there's ever been widespread usage of PC in a way that doesn't make absolute sense

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Keith
16/2/2017 03:44:14 pm

Thinking on this though, the point about school kids behaviour is a good one, and maybe there's a wider conclusion to be drawn.

Pre-internet, schoolkid immaturity, whether regarding outrageous jokes/opinions, silliness, drinking to get extremely drunk etc had to be adapted as we got older, and as we attempted to fit in to new social situations, new groups of friends, work colleagues.

Maybe one of the things about the Internet for younger people is that online there really is no need to ever grow up - you'll always find someone to reinforce your behaviour and normalise it, and if you set someone in real life who challenges you, either directly or just by nature of their position, you can go home, get on the computer and immediately get your existing mindset reinforced.

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paul
16/2/2017 03:55:10 pm

Jeez. Your school sounds like mine was. Mine wasn’t helped by the catchment area covering a large area that was rife with genuine NF/C18 sentiment. That filtered into the school’s population, so it was normalised where I was, and there didn’t seem to be that innocent giggling over a taboo symbol. Most people knew what they meant, and if they didn't they learned fairly quickly. Those who used the symbols were more likely to be sympathetic to the cause they were used to support.

I remember when I was at primary school - which as as multicultural as you could get int he 1970s - picking up an election leaflet which had been posted through the door. It was from the National Front candidate, and I liked his photo, so I said I’d vote for him if I could. My dad then spent quite a bit of time explaining to me that my friends like Leroy wouldn't have a good time if he was elected because their skin colour was different. Then my dad asked me if I would vote for him is he stood for that party. I said “yes”, and I guess if you were nine, you’d follow your parents to the end of the earth without question.

So I knew what all those things meant by the time I went to secondary school. However, what I was never prepared for was the openness of it - there were genuinely kids who seemed prepared to go the whole nine yards too. You learned who to avoid.

To this day, I have no idea what possessed my parents to send me to that school, or why they didn’t pull me out and send me somewhere nicer.

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Darren link
16/2/2017 05:30:20 pm

Firstly, the "news website" that broke the story - The Wall St Journal - managed to edit all of dear Felix's Nazi references out of context to make him look even more of a Nazi - and, if Felix had the sense, he could probably sue them for misrepresentation.

Secondly, Disney and Maker Studios dropped him the day after the news broke that Maker Studios co-founder Shay Carl Butler (shaycarl on the YouTubes, who has made his money exploiting his family to make his fortune via daily vlogs on the site) was himself exposed as not being the cool family guy he portrays himself, but instead being a randy old git who wanted to stick his cock into a webcam girls arsehole. The DM's of their conversations had dropped the day before and one wonders if this action was taken in order to create a necessary smokescreen to stop everyone talking about poor old Pewds.

Personally, I don't have an issue with what he did. He proved a valuable point that for $5 you can get any idiot to do anything. Yes, he is an influencer, but most of his subscribers are there for his particular sense of humour - the same way those who gave cash to Biffo for his fundraiser dig his stuff. I mean, Ghee Man - could be construed as Gay Man - homophobia? Watch out, the right-on bandwagon could be coming for you.

We live in strange times where the next outrage is around the corner and be careful where you tread because next time you could be the one accused of being fascist or racist or a homophobe because something you've done has been taken out of context.

Toodles!

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Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 05:42:27 pm

Political correctness gone mad indeed. These days you can't even do a simple thing like exploit poor people to hold up antisemetic signs for a cheap laugh without the liberal media getting all up on your case...

The millionaire manchild is the real victim here. But where's the protest for his rights?

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Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 06:24:41 pm

Darren, yeah, I agree that the WSJ took stuff out of context, but I still don't agree with the general thrust of Pewdiepie's humour in these instances. I don't buy the whole "Just a joke!" defence. It's bollocks, and doesn't wash, regardless of the actual context. And yeah, I've watched the original video. This particular "Death to all Jews" incident wouldn't matter as much with Pewdiepie if he didn't have a track record of making remarks which are starting to feel all a bit dogwhistle-y.

As for Ghee Man - it's actually Ghee Lord, which is probably unintentionally worse - well, the whole point of it was sort of to say "Weren't the He-Man toys and characters a bit overtly sexualised, with their small pants and bondage gear?" and then pushing that to a ridiculous extreme. It's trying to be satirical (albeit in a surreal way about something nobody cares about, because it's from the 80s).

And then there's a load of just stupid stuff in there too. That said... I'm not an idiot... though I didn't come up with the name with the intention of it soundingly like Gaylord. But at the same time, I don't expect anybody to believe that.

It was originally Ghee-Man, as a play on He-Man, but I thought it sounded too close to the original. He's called Ghee-Lord because I think ghee is a funny word, basically (anybody who remembers #gheeupamovie on my Twitter might back me up on this).

Believe it or not, it was only later that I realised it sounded a bit like gaylord. I ran it by a couple of gay mates before putting it out - and so did Chris, who did the music.

But yeah, taken out of context without that defence it could, I suppose, be construed as homophobic, but there still feels to me that there's a gulf between some bloke in a pair of tiny pants with his balls hanging out - not doing anything overtly sexual - and saying, even to prove the insane services you can buy on line, "Death to all Jews".

It's a thin line, perhaps, between political correctness overstepping the mark, and it's potentially in the eye of the beholder, but I know where my line is at least.

Geebs
17/2/2017 07:45:15 am

Sorry if this comes across as getting my knickers in a twist for no reason, but I thought that segment veered a bit into making-fun-of-other-people's-language Chris Tarrant territory. Especially given that mocking other people because of the food they eat is also a thing. Not saying it was your intention but it felt a bit off.

Mr Biffo
17/2/2017 09:51:00 am

Hunh??

Matt W
16/2/2017 07:31:21 pm

I don't see anything wrong with Pewdiepies antics to be honest. He is clearly taking the piss out of Hitler which should be the attitude everyone has. Nazis are to be mocked not feared. He is ripping into the press and media for the gutter tactics they use. Hitler is a meme, on the Internet everyone is Hitler, that's generally the point Pewdiepie is making.

There was a time when the top sitcom in the UK used to regularly take the piss out of Nazis in the relatively harmless Dad's Army. John Cleese did some goosestepping that is regularly featured on comedy reel shows. It a shame that a program like Til Death us Do Part, which mercifully ripped it out of racists, can't be repeated as some people are unable to understand the concept of a joke. And am I imagining it or didn't Digi actually have a segment from Hitler?

It won't be long before those programs are banned and we are taught once again to fear Nazis rather than take the piss out of just how utterly ridiculous and stupid they were.

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Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 07:46:21 pm

It's worth making the distinction that with the Fawlty Towers 'Germans' ep, the target of the humour is Basil Fawlty's sort of little Englander, middle class, repression - not Adolf Hitler or Germans. In fact, the Germans in that episode are the most sane and reasonable people in the entire show.

Frankly, I'm lost for words if people can't tell the distinction between that and Pewdiepie laughing his balls off because he paid a couple of blokes from Sri Lanka $5 to hold up a sign reading "Death to all Jews"...

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Mr Biffo
16/2/2017 07:48:13 pm

Also, I'm all for taking the piss out of Hitler, and Nazi iconography in that way, through ludicrous memes. Again: explain to me how "Death to all Jews" does that?

Spiney O'Sullivan
16/2/2017 08:02:10 pm

This is comedy genius Mel Brooks' argument, and I've always wanted to believe it's true. Sadly I'm increasingly not so sure.

The danger of making someone a figure of fun is that you don't see it coming when they do something terrible. We can laugh all we like to comfort ourselves, but the real Neo-Nazis and other extremists out there likely take themselves quite seriously, and would likely do things that are quite serious if given the chance. There's a real danger of pretending to ourselves that they're harmless and impotent while they're training and planning. And they probably don't care if people are laughing at them outwardly, because it gives them solidarity and fuels the victim/martyr complex that partly drives them.

On the one hand, I recognise the desire to tell ourselves that something isn't so bad with gallows humour. But on the other, things aren't good if you're on the gallows in the first place.

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Geebs
17/2/2017 08:35:36 am

That's veering into self defeating over-sensitive territory I think. The point is, if you confront a person directly with something awful, they will go straight into denial and you will never make any more headway. If you present Nazis exactly as they were and are, but add a dose of humour, people will get the point better rather than switching off because they'll laugh, and then they'll think.

From my point of view it's better to remind everybody how evil the Nazis were with a dose of humour, than to try to hide what they did and allow modern-day Nazis a veneer of respectability.

Spiney O'Sullivan
17/2/2017 09:11:21 am

I agree that direct argument is often ineffective, and has probably helped to strengthen divisions, because let's be honest: all people are very sensitive. And I really like idea of satire as a useful tool. But there's two issues there:

Firstly, what about this is really satirical? He's just laughing at the shock value of what he's done, much like the geography class example below. Except he's not a child testing the boundaries of the pupil-teacher authority divide, he's a millionaire with huge influence over children.

Secondly, I hate to seem smug, but satire has a tendency to go right over the heads of those who need it most. A quick glance of comments on The Onion's political articles will demonstrate that almost immediately. Or consider Alf Garnett, who was supposedly being satirised, but had plenty of fans who agreed with him completely. Satire often seems to work better when preaching to the converted or those on the fence more than actually convincing the rest. Worse still, it can feed the victim complexes that keep extremism alive by making them feel like the butt of the joke.

Geebs
17/2/2017 09:37:23 am

I should clarify that I was talking about Mel Brooks, not PewDiePie. That guy's a cretin.

I think trying to make PDP out as a Nazi by quoting material where he takes the piss out himself over having made himself look like one is completely tone-deaf and counterproductive, but his position really isn't helped by the fact that casually anti-Semitic slang is still more common among Scandinavians than it really should be.

Random Reviewer
1/3/2017 07:35:52 pm

I feel like Brooks was making a very funny, surreal and exasperated response to racism and Nazi ideology in particular with The Producers. I think its value lies more in the fact that it's a kind of relief - a coping mechanism rather than a direct way to confront fascists. But I think there's still a need for that kind of art as It provides comfort. Bloody funny, too, unlike Pewdiepie.

Kendall9000
16/2/2017 07:40:06 pm

Yes, he's a dickhead - if nothing else he should have realised that "edgy" jokes aren't exactly going to go down well with Disney.

No, he isn't a Nazi, despite what various dishonest clickbait spewing "journalists" have said. Them taking bits of his videos out of context to spin his shtick as "Youtube star's shocking anti-Semitism revealed!!!" makes them worse dickheads than he is.

If his nonsense normalises Nazism, calling him a Nazi certainly trivialises it.

A Jewish Youtube buddy of his responds: https://youtu.be/JLNSiFrS3n4

Although it's always possible he's a bit of a dickhead too.

Reply
Ghost Walt Disney
16/2/2017 09:31:35 pm

Actually I quite like edgy jokes, I think they're good. Especially edgy jokes involving Jews.

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David W
16/2/2017 11:24:48 pm

Was Education for Death secretly ironic?

Ghost Walt Disney
17/2/2017 06:58:11 pm

The US government made me do that film. They knew things about me. Really bad things.

Chris Wyatt
16/2/2017 09:59:16 pm

In Geography class, we all thought it would be funny to do a Nazi salute when Miss said 'hands up'.

She wasn't impressed, and I got an absolute bollocking, as I was the only one who still had my hand up.

I'm not a racist, or a Nazi, but I still think that's an amusing gag to this day! I thought our geography teacher was being a little oversensitive then, and still do now; however, I wouldn't make that same joke again with fear of offence.

It's difficult humour territory. There is a fine line between irony and being outright offensive.

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Solid Rake
17/2/2017 08:04:15 am

Not really, it's all about context. Why did you decide a nazi salute was the correct gesture for the geography class? If there isn't a reason you may not be a nazi, but you are a pewdepie

Do you see why pewdepie's antics are frowned upon whereas people praise The Producers, for example?

Reply
Chris Wyatt
17/2/2017 01:09:11 pm

I'm not defending Pewdipie at all, and I hope it didn't sound like I was (that was not my intention). What he did was clearly badly judged. I honestly know next to nothing about the guy, but from what I heard, he sounds like a douche.

I'm not saying that the nazi salute in my Geography class was the right thing to do, but we all found it hilarious at the time (because we were stupid kids).

A good example is Fawlty Towers - The Germans. I have not come across anyone who thinks this episode is offensive, and whenever I watch it, I don't feel that it's insensitive in the slightest; however do I think that something like that would be made today? I seriously doubt it. It features nazi salutes, goose-stepping, and is, no doubt, close to the mark, but I think most people can agree it's comedy gold and all done in good humour.

Probably, because WWII was a long time ago now, and the younger generations, I suppose, would be seen as having less of a right to take the piss out of it; it would almost certainly be seen as disrespectful (even if it was comedy gold, e.g. Fawlty Towers).

So... I'm basically saying... I would not touch WWII humour with a barge pole now, with fear of offence; however, I also think that people are more easily offended now, and with our social media / public shaming culture, you have to be even more careful what you say/do than ever before.

Spiney O'Sullivan
17/2/2017 01:28:35 pm

The joke in that episode isn't on the Germans or Jewish people. It's on Basil, who is acting like an idiot, trying to reign in his own prejudice (ironically because he doesn't want to offend) and then failing very badly.

Also he doesn't to my knowledge use antisemetic slogans as a lazy non-sequitur, which is essentially what Pewdiepie is doing.

Chris Wyatt
17/2/2017 02:03:51 pm

100% agree

RichardM
17/2/2017 09:09:00 am

Genuinely curious, what makes someone a Nazi? Is it being anti-Semitic, or having swastika tattoos or giving Indiana Jones grief? 'Espousing the views of Hitler and the Nazi party' doesn't really summarise it for me: they don't seem to give a fuck about the lebensraum. The term 'neo-Nazi' seems to have dropped out of usage. Hateful people, anyway.

Pewdiepie is just a twit chasing clicks. I hope he donates a pile of money to some deserving cause so some good comes out of the whole clusterfuck.

Reply
Gordon Ramsey's furrowed brow
17/2/2017 09:11:40 am

This has got to be one of the most thought provoking intellectual discussions on digi in a long time!
So can I bring things back down to earth by asking randomly for a wee digi image of some white dog shit?
We never see enough of that any more, and it always makes me laugh when I see some.

PS
The guy is clearly a dick, and I don't think he has the IQ / brains to be as smart / ironic / edgey as his disciples are claiming.

Reply
Dr. Budd Buttocks, MD
17/2/2017 10:58:06 am

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jacobclifton/pewdiepie-isnt-a-monster-hes-someone-you-know?utm_term=.mppw7lJEz#.hgJXEGVZK

Quite a long read, this. But I think it totally gets to the heart of the issue. Not just with Pewdiepie, but also the surrounding alt right narrative as well. Surprisingly good for Buzzfeed, of all places

Reply
Spiney O'Sullivan
17/2/2017 12:31:35 pm

That was actually worth reading. When did Buzzfeed start producing nuanced commentary instead of lists of funny cats?

Reply
Clive Peppard
17/2/2017 01:43:01 pm

everything i know about this numpty came from his review/lets play of Alien Isolation, he started by saying what a huge fan of the ouvre he was then repeatedly demonstrated an absoloute lack of knowledge on everything Alieny.

He's full of shit and needs to disappear.

Is he a nazi or a dickhead?

well, he's certainly a dickhead..

Reply
Mrtankthreat
17/2/2017 03:16:35 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq1tSvYP5GU

So what's everyone's take on this? Personally I think it's Jew hating comedy done right and is hilarious.

Reply
Adam
17/2/2017 11:00:58 pm

Interesting to read what happened to you at school Mr Biffo, as the incident with Mrs Padel is very similar to what happened to me. When I was ten or eleven, i was happily drawing swastikas at school - in the condensation on windows, on my text books, etc. All the boys in the class were doing it, and it may even have been me who started it (i can't honestly recall, although someone else got the blame in the end). They were just fun to draw, and the Nazis were just comic-book or movie villains to me (in much the same way that Spielberg saw them until the 90's). But after a few weeks of this we were all taken to an empty classroom by the Headmistress where our teacher sat us down and explained that she had lost Jewish relatives during the war and what the swastika represented was not just a bit of fun. We all stopped drawing them after that.

There's an age at which it is okay to make mistakes like that but at 27, Pewdiepie has no excuse.

Reply
Clockwork Fool
17/2/2017 11:41:59 pm

You don't see a troubling aspect here in a story involving old media going on a witch-hunt, misrepresenting things a very successful youtuber has said in order to harm his career and drive clicks to their own website?

Name a news organisation that wouldn't sell their granny to a glue factory for the kind of reach Pewdiepie somehow has.

Reply
Geebs
18/2/2017 07:56:20 am

http://www.strictly-vegan-news.com

Reply
Carlos link
18/2/2017 12:58:56 pm

Well Done Biff, a well argued article- and some very good comments too.

My Son used to watch him all the time on YouTube, I sat and watched PP's work with him to see what he was about. I did not like it at all. He behaved like a Man amongst boys, who would certainly behave like a boy amongst men.



So I am glad he has pissed on his chips, interestingly I asked my my son about all this said he went of him ages ago anyway.

Nazi? No
Twat? Yes
Groomer? Possibly

Reply
Uggi
19/2/2017 01:07:40 pm

Theres very little evidence that such bad taste comedy and any other pop culture trivialities have such an effect as to normalise Nazism. That guy you quote sounds as deluded as some old time Marxist-Leninist who believes social realist plays can influence to proles to rise up in revoultion. The Alt right is the shadow image of the identitarian, social justice "warriors" that came to prominence during the Obama administration, it gains traction when said liberal discourse reveals its inability to address the basic economic and social problems of a capitalist system.

Reply
Wet Ham
19/2/2017 08:17:05 pm

One thing I'd say is that, those who are surprised by a guy in his late 20s behaving like an idiot teenager can't have seen many guys in their late 20s recently.

Might be a London thing, but the level of bizarre public immaturity of blokes, even up to their mid to late 30s, never ceases to amaze and dismay me.

Even the ones with kids, they speak to their children like they're that inconvenient mate on a night out who doesn't want to go to the club that everybody else wants to.

Reply
Roy (Stuart N Hardy fan)
3/3/2017 09:39:07 am

I take exception to what you said about it being a London thing.
I'm a South East Londoner born and bred and I wasn't brought up like that.
Same applies to my family and SE London friends.

Reply
Random Reviewer
1/3/2017 07:59:13 pm

I took a look at Pewdiepie's content years ago and decided it wasn't for me, to put it mildly.

The point he is trying to make in the video doesn't seem strong enough to warrant the imagery used and he is clearly something of a clueless berk when it comes to deploying 'shock comedy.' A robust critique was obviously necessary.

That said, the WSJ put two reporters on their case, got them to comb through hours of his footage and when they did manage to find slightly iffy content they even managed to misrepresent those videos by taking things out of context (and deploying the obligatory clickbaity headlines). It had all the hallmarks of a hitpiece, because that's what it was.

Crucially, that doesn't excuse Pewdiepie's idiocy, but it also doesn't exactly help us start the discourse from a position of clarity. Old skool, legacy media has been sticking the boot into YouTube personas for a while now as they see their own audiences dwindling. Buzzfeed also appears to be leading the charge against content creators:

"The real story with PewDiePie is not that somebody you’re preconditioned to hate ... because you dismiss his industry at large, or because you’re incredulous that anybody could make this much money doing basically nothing"

Nice. What this has actually done is to unite disparate YouTubers under a common banner to retaliate whenever a misrepresentation occurs. I can only see things getting significantly uglier unless all parties get their shizz together.

Reply
Roy (Stuart N Hardy fan)
2/3/2017 02:32:59 pm

I'd never heard of this prick before I read this article.
Good job too!

Reply



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