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COMICS TROLLEY: WHY MARVEL HAS DIVERSIFIED TOO FAR - by Mr Biffo

5/4/2017

56 Comments

 
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Back when Digitiser was a thing on Teletext, I started a semi-regular comics column called Comics Trolley. We can't have run more than half a dozen instalments. I think I put a stop to it, because writing about comics on a video games section - purely to scratch my own itch - felt like a wilful self-indulgence. Yes, yes - I know Digitiser also had Fat Sow, and Man's Daddy, and Inspector Morse...  

And? And here I am again, picking away at my oozing rash of immoderation.

I used to be a big comics fan, see. Growing up, I started out on Whizzer & Chips, Topper, Buster, Cheeky and Krazy, occasionally picking up a Beano and Dandy - but I was really an IPC/Fleetway boy. I'd particularly treasured the summer specials, reading them on the beach, or in the car en route to yet another caravan park.

Obviously, I was aware of the big Marvel and DC heroes during the 70s. I remember seeing the oversized Superman Versus The Amazing Spider-Man one-shot in my local newsagent's, and having my mind blown. I'd picked up various Marvel issues here and there over the years, mostly the Marvel UK reprints of the US stuff (as well as Marvel UK's Amazing Spider-Man, which featured an original story that saw Peter Parker moving to London).

I think I bought every issue of Marvel's Star Wars comic, and my mum's mum - who I subsequently referred to as Nanny Comic (my other grandmother was known as Nanny Money, because she gave me £1 every time I saw her) - bought me the weekly Marvel UK reprint of Secret Wars, a crossover which featured more or less every Marvel hero. Apart from Daredevil, for some reason. 

It was 2000AD which really inspired me, though. I think I started with issue 3 of that - having been round my mate Jon's house, and seeing his copy of issue 2 (which came with "Biotronic stickers"). I badgered my mum to get me the next issue, which had a free code-breaking "survival wallet" taped to the cover. Not quite as much fun as the stickers sadly, but I was sold.

​I didn't miss another issue for nigh on 30 years. In the early-90s, I even got within a hair's breadth of actually drawing Judge Dredd. Such is the story of my life; I've had more close shaves than a male stripper.

#GoodMetaphor
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FORBIDDEN FRUIT
​​A family trip to London when I was 15 changed everything; my parents and I dropped into Forbidden Planet - then in its tiny Denmark Street incarnation.

​It felt like stepping out into a much bigger world; the horizons of my imagination expanded exponentially. For the next few years, I was a regular customer.

One trip in particular stands out; I bought the entire 12-issue run of Watchmen, issue one of Pat Mills' and Kevin O'Neill's Marshal Law, Camelot 3000, and Mister X by the Hernandez Brothers. From that point onwards I was feeding an addiction.

I was particularly a sucker for good art - I picked up pretty much anything drawn by Brendan McCarthy, Brian Bolland, Philip Bond or Cam Kennedy. Simon Bisley was another favourite. Glenn Fabry, Bill Sienkiewicz, Steve Dillon, John Romita Jr, Frank Quietly... At least one of the artists I admired - Duncan Fegredo - even turned out to be a Digi fan. I followed the writing of Alan Moore, Grant Morrison, Mark Millar and Garth Ennis. I was as much a fan of comics as it's possible to get.

And these days I barely read them. 

I still visit Forbidden Planet whenever I'm in London, but I don't come away with a stack of books like I used to; I cherry-pick a few at a time - usually the Marvel Star Wars books, or IDW's Dredd and Doctor Who titles....

In fact, the only ongoing comic that I still read is The Walking Dead, and I'm not even sure how good that is.

NO PLACE FOR CHILDREN
It was about five years ago that I stopped being a regular comics reader. 

2000AD was the first to go, when I realised that I was skipping most of the contents of each issue. Judge Dredd's co-creator John Wagner was writing the character less and less, and I'd started to find the non-Wagner Dredd strips less... important, I suppose. 

I was always more a Marvel boy than a DC one, but piece by piece Marvel lost me too. The final straw came - ironically - with a series entitled Secret Wars (only loosely associated with the original series from the 1980s).

You might've read recently that Marvel has hit a sales slump. There has been talk of it being blamed on the company's recent push towards more diversity in its titles. Heck, the story even made it to Newsnight this week.

At a recent retailer summit hosted by Marvel, it was reported that retailers had requested fewer headlining female characters - and the company faced an online backlash when it appeared to be taking the requests seriously.

I can't speak for every former Marvel reader, but I can talk about what drove me away... and it had absolutely nothing to do with diversity. Well... not that sort of diversity.

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DIVERSITY
I totally applaud Marvel for pushing diversity. Its comics need to reflect the real world, and speak to its readers; that has always been what it did best. Unfortunately, what it instead chose to do with its recent Secret Wars event was dick around with its core characters.

It wiped away the Marvel Universe as it was, and created a new one, made up of versions of Marvel characters from different realities. Continuity was out of the window. Characters were no longer who they'd been. It is - frankly - a bewildering mess.

Even my favourite Marvel title - Ultimate Spider-Man - was folded into this new Marvel universe, having previously existed in its own continuity. Prior to that, I'd begun to find its Avengers and Fantastic Four books pursuing impenetrably dour storytelling, which put big ideas over the grounded fun with which I'd always associated Marvel. Emotion was out, and cod-intellectualism was in.

Add to this the company pursuing a policy of rolling one massive line-spanning event into another - all of which require customers to read multiple books to get the whole story - and characterisation gets pushed out. The big events aren't earned. 

In fact, the Marvel of old is best embodied these days in its movies.

KITCHEN SINK

Previously, Marvel stood out because its characters had to deal with regular domestic issues alongside the super-villains. It made them relatable.

With a handful of exceptions, Marvel characters weren't gods or aliens; they were empowered nerds, bullying victims, wracked with insecurities... 

I don't want Spider-Man to be the CEO of a corporation. I don't want the X-Men to be knocking around with younger versions of themselves. It's weird and confusing, and needs a flowchart to keep track of. The Marvel Universe was always one step removed from our own. Now it's something else that I don't understand or recognise.

Again; diversity doesn't even factor into it. Simply put, I don't want Thor being replaced by a completely different character called Thor; it doesn't make a difference whether that character is female or not. The fact is... it's not the same character. They replaced the Bruce Banner Hulk with another male character, and I gave up with Hulk at that point too. 
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SHAME 
The bottom line is: I stopped reading Marvel Comics, like many others, because Marvel Comics became unrecognisable. Not just that... but unwelcoming.

The joy has gone from so many of its books. Everything has to be interconnected all of the time, so the moments when the characters do come together no longer feel special. The big events have become more important than the small ones, which had always been the foundation upon which the Marvel Universe was built.


I suppose I'm writing this because a) I'm angry that I've lost something which gave me so much pleasure over the course of my life, and b) I think it's a shame that diversity is being blamed for the position in which Marvel finds itself, and c) I'm worried that Marvel is going to reboot its universe and do away with much of the cultural diversity, without fixing the real issue.

Reflecting the real world and real life problems is what Marvel always did best, offering stories which were relatable and universal, mixing the light and the dark. Marvel gave you cause to care about its characters. It's not about whether they're male or female or black or white or Muslim.

It's about showing characters who are relatable who exist in a relatable world. Not one where a million realities collided, and now there's an old version of Wolverine running around, who might be from the future, or something, and Captain America is 90 years old... and he's a Nazi... and Reed Richards from The Fantastic Four is evil, or dead, or is he dead and evil?!

It's like... what?

For years now, Marvel has slipped away from that to a point where I no longer recognise it. The last footholds I had in the Marvel Universe were taken away from me. Frankly, I miss it, and I doubt I'm alone. I welcome the diversity of cultures, race and gender that Marvel pursued.

What I didn't want is Marvel diversifying from its sense of joy and relatability - or reflecting the real world by blaming minority groups for problems which are entirely of its own making...
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The Man's Daddy by Duncan Fegredo
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56 Comments
Biscuits the character
5/4/2017 11:22:56 am

I love comics to bits. Hey man - all my post-school education has specifically related to comics. I grew up on The Beano and Whizzer and Chips and all that (mostly from car boots), loved 'em. However, I never had much joy with superheroes, mostly because every time I picked an issue of something up it was part 76 in a 340 issue 'arc', and it referenced past characters/planets/weapons that hadn't appeared in 50 issues but now they are the lynch pin of the story and I have never heard of them. Add the constant, endlessly tedious 'alternative universe' guff in there and it all seems so futile and arbitrary.

Thus I can't blame Marvel for wheeling out yet another contrivance, I imagine they are trying to appeal to a new influx of readers now that their movies are taking off and what have you. It does sound like a massive shift in tone and character though, I could see why the claims of 'It's permanent this time guys. No, it is. It IS.' would be disconcerting.

I have no idea if this would help renew an interest (if indeed you would even care to), but I would suggest swapping out Forbidden Planet for Gosh and getting some adult comics down yer neck (eyes). I see you name Los Bros Hernandez up there, I still consider them masters.

Though maybe you are already aware of this stuff and hate it! Or maybe you like it but don't see how it relates to Marvel, and that's clearly what this article is about. In any case the uptight snooty pedant in me would feel remiss to not mention them.

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Biscuits
5/4/2017 11:38:13 am

Also, 'The Man's Daddy by Duncan Fegredo'???? "After Mr Biffo"?? Holy mackerel. I imagine you have that image tattooed somewhere on your person

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 11:41:10 am

I was sorely tempted.

Nikki
5/4/2017 11:32:45 am

Oh boy, you don't shy away from this stuff do you, Biffo!

And you know what, I agree.

It's like when we play Zelda, and my daughter wishes she could play as Zelda. She has never asked to play as "female Link". Link's a boy. She wants a fully realised, female hero. Not a femmed version that spouts buzzwords.

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 11:37:56 am

Yeah, that's part of what pisses me off I think. Instead of creating new role-models - strong characters in their own right - it's like a lot of the female or minority characters are given hand-me-downs from existing white, male, straight, characters; Thor, Iron Man, Spider-Gwen, Ultimate Spider-Man...

I much prefer what Marvel did with existing characters such as Ice Man (who came out as gay) or Luke Cage (turning a black stereotype character from the 70s into one that was well-rounded and felt real).

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Mark
5/4/2017 12:54:30 pm

He didn't real "comeout as gay",

His younger self was forcibly outed by a time transported telepath, who told him for no reason whatsoever, even though his grown up version had had several adult relationships with the opposite sex for the last 50 years fo contintuity, and as far as he knew still wasn't gay.

The whole thing was weird.

Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 01:06:37 pm

So... in the usual way then?

Spiney O'Sullivan
5/4/2017 01:11:57 pm

While I'm happy to agree with disliking the sheer laziness of "Spider-Gwen" (not least becuase there were already at least 3 better Spider-Women out there), I actually really like Miles Morales as Ultimate Spidey, and if you haven't given him a shot, I'd recommend that you do (at least until the Ultimate Universe was bulldozed).

While losing Ultimate Peter and seeing less (but not none) of his supporting was a blow, I felt that his death was handled well (i.e. it hit like a truck). Miles' development in the short time we got to see it felt natural, and brought some great new dynamics to the series.

That said, I would probably have been a bit annoyed if they got rid of both Ultimate and 616 Peter at the same time. The Ultimate universe was meant for changes and reinterpretations, but changing up the originals is a bit more of a step...

Nick
5/4/2017 11:50:12 am

Ahh forbidden planet on Denmark street, on my first trip to London in about 82 as a kid I dragged my parents over there too, bought a few of the early judge dredd reprints (cursed earth 1and 2 I think) and my judge dredd candle which still holds pride of place in my study. Agree with you about marvel too, it's just got too complicated for my old brain

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 11:59:35 am

Man, I loved those Titan Dredd reprints - back from the day when they felt like real relics of the past. Loved the covers too. Such gorgeous art.

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Nick
5/4/2017 12:39:57 pm

Yeah, the cover art was awesome. I have about 30 odd reprints, covering dredd, abc warriors, robo-hunter etc. I've had a number of reprints over the years but yeah the size and makeup of the titan ones have always made them feel a bit more special than anything since

Darren link
5/4/2017 11:57:28 am

The problem with comics is instead of being for kids, they decided they had to grow with their audience. This was the biggest mistake. Trying to make things appeal to their ageing audience by interconnecting things and creating alternate universes just muddies the puddle.

Thing were better when they were written for kids and had no pretensions that they were some kind of art form and could be subversive in plain sight.

Nowadays everything has to be so damn serious, so damn real instead of just being fun. We had female superheroes back in the day - I remember really digging issue one of Dazzler.

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 12:00:22 pm

Totally agree 100%.

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David W
5/4/2017 01:05:39 pm

Anybody else read The Phoenix comic?

It's suitable for kids, while crediting readers of all ages with more intelligence than the average newspaper does. Sometimes it feels a little worthy, but the heavier serials and book reviews are quite well balanced by stupidity (and occasional subversion.)

There are also no cheap plastic toys attached to the cover. Ever.

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Adam
7/4/2017 12:33:46 am

You did well even to get the first issue of Dazzler back then - it wasn't distributed in UK newsagents until issue 2, which was very annoying to me at the time.

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RichardM
5/4/2017 12:07:09 pm

Glad to hear someone else read Whizzer & Chips: everyone always looks at me funny when I reminisce about Sweeny Toddler et al. and then go on about bloody Dennis the Menace.

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Mark
5/4/2017 12:59:39 pm

One of my primary school teachers used to bring in all the weeks comics for us to buy/read.

Whizzer and Chips, Buster, Doom Lord,

The best though was the "the victor"

Cadman, The Fighting Coward and my favourtie
Alf Tupper: The tough of the Track, where he could Weld during the week, then eat a fish supper and win the big race at the weekend.

Antholgy comics were neat.

This is probably why I still get the Viz every month.

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Biscuits
5/4/2017 02:26:38 pm

Alf Tupper - I never heard of it before this comment, this is great! The first image on Google is him enjoying fish n' chips.

Was it Whizzer and Chips or Buster that had Faceache?

Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 01:03:48 pm

W&C had Buytonic Boy in it!

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RichardM
5/4/2017 02:46:11 pm

Someone definitely needs to Kickstart an IPC/Fleetway retrospective, if they haven't done so already. Answers on a postcard if they have: would buy 10.

Store Wars, Mustapha Million, Junior Rotter, Lazy Bones, Odd-Ball, Bobby's Ghoul, The Bumpkin Billionaires... Fuck. Wish I still had a few copies!

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Gosunkugi
5/4/2017 07:13:05 pm

There's been a bit of a push lately. A lot of the IPC properties have landed in Rebellion's lap. So far I've seen a Misty collection, and Hook Jaw has gotten a relaunch through Titan. We can expect to see a lot more.

Spiney O'Sullivan
5/4/2017 12:46:32 pm

Like you, I gave up on Marvel when they folded Ultimate Spider-Man into this new Frankenstein universe. Having already ditched 616 Spidey due to Brand New Day, Deadpool two volumes into Daniel Way's dire run, and the 616 universe in general because of the now monthly series-wide crossover events, it was the only one left.

USM was the one series I had followed consistently for 15 years, and probably one of the consistently best series Marvel has ever published. I really like Miles, but I had to quit as it bugs me that I'll never get to see him develop as a hero in the context he was meant to, with the excellent Ultimate Spider-Man supporting cast and his new Ultimates.

The long and short of it is that serialised fiction is only as good as its status before the next reboot. Someone remind me why I'm reading the new Star Wats books again?

As for the diversity push, adding more varied and representative heroes is a genuinely great thing, but Marvel kneecapped themselves right out of the gate by accomplishing this by stamping all over popular characters.

I understand the desire to leverage the brand value of existing characters for adding diverse characters, and the better examples of this are Ms Marvel and Miles Morales as Spider-Man, where the originals are regarded as inspirations (as opposed to turned into Nazis or declared Unworthy) and the writing is great (compare to the infamous "unsolicited opinions" panel...).

Marvel basically tried to do a good thing in the worst way and are now scrabbling to absolve themselves of responsibility. It's lazy and insulting to everyone to brush this off as comics readers refusing to buy comics with diverse heroes (though admittedly the usual lot no doubt actively did), and they should just admit that they failed to implement diversity well and have generally spent the last few years ruining most of their line.

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Clive Peppard
5/4/2017 12:48:31 pm

The comics that I loved are scant, i had a sheltered upbringing with mean parents..

Obvious start at Dandy & Beano.

GI Joe was superb and beautifully coincided with toys glorious toys which i had a lot of (maybe they werent that mean..)

Then The Eagle, Dan Dare, Charlies War, The guy that was stuck inside video games, all classics.

Then 2000AD, Strontium Dogs was far and away my favourite although the Judges of the apocalypse were fantastic and of course the Angel Clan are brilliant especially Fink and MeanMachine (im gonna go up ta 4 on yer)

The Chopper & Phantom graffiti story got a friend and i in big trouble at school. I sprayed the Chopper tag in fake snow on a sand stone building in 1994 Im pretty sure its still there with a giant Phantom tag over the top of it...

I never got into American comics really but did dip my toe into the Graphic Novel with Arkham Asylum which i really liked.

I tried Manga after watching Battle Royale and buying the comics - couldnt get into it.

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Bruce Flagpole
5/4/2017 12:58:29 pm

Clearly, what's needed is that, after Found Footage and the digi book, Mr B needs to do his own brand new super hero comic, in his copious spare time. Itch that itch AND show Marvel et al how it's done!
Not that I ever really read comics, beyond the annual chrimbo Beano and Oor Wullie annuals, but I'd try a Mr Biffo one! :)

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DEAN
5/4/2017 01:17:38 pm

I was always a lot more Marvel than DC but I LOVED The Green Lantern movie. Not as much as Deadpool but I digress.

I know the Ryan Reynolds Hal Jordan flick was generally reviled but it caught me just right and I went on a mission to learn more. I read recent ones by Geoff Johns (excellent stuff, btw) and older stuff. All great. THEN I discovered how Hal Jordan had a stint as The Spectre - holy shit that was cool.

Green Lantern is a great example - there's been several lead lanterns and when you try and read about one other than the best one (Hal) it's just not cool - feels like drinking Pepsi when what you want is a Coke... No, it's worse!
It's like thinking about drinking Coke, subconsciously positive that's what you're about to sip and then, AND THEN it's something different that you weren't expecting.

They completely fucked The Silver Surfer and managed to pull that off keeping him as Mr Radd. I know he was always quite messianic but, sweet buttery Jesus, the last stuff I read with him read like something I was handed in the high street by a whack job.

Great article and agree all the way!

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Darcy
5/4/2017 01:17:39 pm

Those "character is now somebody else!" plots always struck me as pure attention seeking. Like the comics equivalent to clickbait. Same with any kind of "popular superhero dies!" ones.

And it doesn't matter if they make Spiderman a gay, black woman, because, for the general populace, Spiderman is - and always will be - Peter Parker.

Really, though, I think my biggest issue with these sorts of comics is that they never bloody end! And maybe that's the real problem? Neither Marvel or DC can bear to part with the old guard, so there will never be room for a new generation of (more diverse) heroes. Some of these characters are getting close to 100, FFS. And the longer they're around, the more convoluted shit gets. Just end it all already!

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Alastair
5/4/2017 01:30:09 pm

As an aside, I started reading 2000AD on Jan 1, 2000AD, then gave it up a few years later when the dross outweighed the good by a surprising extent and I realised I was only really getting the Megazine for the bundled back stories.

Dredd Case files fill any need to read comics now.

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King of Duckhenrys
5/4/2017 01:46:04 pm

Isn't half the problem that these things have been around for such a long time? They just seem to build up this huge impenetrable backstory and lore. Powers and abilities inflate to deal with the over-the-top threat of the story-arc which has to be bigger and better than last. It seems to gradually become a noose around the writer's necks.

Then you get the alternate realities, the future versions, and cross-overs and the reboots to try and get around this. Which inevitably makes things worse. Until the only way you're not tripping over your own canon is to reboot the whole damn thing and pretend it never happened.

The same thing seems to happen with many US shows - 20 odd episodes a season, always trying to top things, trying to keep the show 'fresh' and it just ends up a mess.

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Gosunkugi
5/4/2017 01:54:28 pm

I agree for the most part. My take is that replacement heroes have always been around, maybe not to the same degree as today, but it was more of a carefully thought out way to not confuse a brand that Marvel did what they did back then, call it the plastic lunchbox, underoos, and Saturday morning cartoon mentality. Always put the kids first. It was important for Marvel to put the classic icons at the forefront for media purposes, and woe betide anyone that tried to change the status quo. Is there anyone, I beg, anyone that actually knew that it wasn't Tony Stark in the suit during the first Secret Wars? Because let me tell you, nobody I knew bought Iron Man comics in 1984. I hope you get the point I'm making there. Short of a few die-harders, from the toy-line on up, Iron Man was always thought to be Tony.

To drag a point further out there, Jen was never just called Hulk, she was She-Hulk, something that would be perhaps be seen as a bit derogatory these days. Ben moved quickly away from being called Spider-Man and became The Scarlet Spider, Eric Thunderstrike, etc etc.

There were a few exceptions though. Notably Captain Marvel. Arguably the most diversified of heroes from back then, who went from dying of cancer, to being replaced by a black woman who honoured the name for the next 14 years. And as I touched on above, Rhodey was Iron Man for a spell, not that anyone noticed under the helmet. If the internet existed at that point, do you think the backlash would be the same? I'd have to say no.

So what happened? Well, somewhere along the way, in spite of the continuity we crave, the Marvel universe stalled. It went from being one where legacies were being shaped to one where it seemed they couldn't escape the very brand images they'd cemented. Maybe around the year 2000? The bubble contracted alarmingly. Interestingly the same time as the formation of the Ultimate Universe. There didn't seem to be any forward progress, just regression, darkness, a more realistic bent, with the added bonus of a reset button a few months later. Magneto's dead? Oh he's not dead he's Xorn, but now he's dead, except he's not Xorn so he's not dead, was he ever dead? Okay, I will say that Morrison's X-Men was the one title that at least tried to break the mould. Not only radically shaking up mutations, but bringing in dozens of younger characters as students. While the Ultimate Universe line became a place of freedom and experimentation, the main universe stagnated.

Today there doesn't seem to be as much desire to keep any sort of status quo, comics-wise anyway, as Marvel, through its movies, sees its brand as solid. And we're seeing a shift to younger or newer characters with the same names precisely because of the legacy and experimentation they let slip for the last few decades. Think of it as a way to not only bring in new readers of all ages and backgrounds, but as a way to tell wild and interesting stories too. I'd point anyone towards the Miles Spider-Man as the go-to title for the right way to do things. Sorry you feel that way about the Ultimate universe, I'm with you, we lost a lot of good characters, but that doesn't mean they're gone forever. The nature of comics is that everything is transitory. Maybe people just can't escape from that brand mentality, Steve must always be Captain America, there must only be one Cabbage Lad, you're changing things from my rose-tinted childhood, and quite frankly Stan Lee I don't like it!

Is the universe still too dark? Some titles, absolutely. But I strongly believe it's countered with more light-hearted titles. Squirrel Girl, Ms. Marvel, Spider-Woman, Patsy Walker, Silver Surfer, and yes, even The Totally Awesome Hulk. Definitely bringing in the younger readers, something I've desperately wanted Marvel to focus on. So maybe it's the older readers with the problem, obvious when you think about it.

Is the universe more complicated now? Arse biscuits. Giant flaky bum hob nobs, mate. Yeah, sure, you need to read a million tie-ins if you want the full story during event season, but that's always been the case, and they were never crucial to the plot, just bonuses for readers of that particular title. I say that as someone who spent three decades of my life trying to make sense of X-Men.

There now follows a detailed and comprehensive list of every hero who's ever been replaced in the Marvel Universe. I think you'll be surprised:

Just kidding. But I'm sure you can find one on the Googles. Also Jane Foster Thor is amazing, one of the best titles they're putting out, regardless of what she calls herself.

Oof, that was a long one. Off now for a chocolate digestive.

tl;dr We grew up. Marvel found a new audience.

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S Hawke
5/4/2017 07:18:03 pm

Marvel didn't find a new audience though. That's why their sales figures are bad.

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By the Hoary Plums of Gosunkugi
5/4/2017 09:50:44 pm

I don't think they're bad to be honest, peeks and troughs, A year or so ago Bleeding Fool did a muck piece on why DC were kicking Marvel's backside, I believe it was titled something like "Marvel are done!" or something. It showed a remarkable nativity from so called industry experts on rising and falling sales figures, particularly after an event. Lo and behold, Marvel's sales jumped back up a few months later.

Sales are never going to be astronomical with the younger or newer readers, We're none of us naive enough to ignore that it takes decades to really fall in deep enough where your pull-list would make a neckbeard faint. But if not now, then when? Where better time? These titles are hooking them, and the characters are being absorbed and idolised for kids the same way the classics were for us back in the day.

Paul Milne
6/4/2017 12:53:38 am

Trade paperbacks of the 'new and diverse' characters are selling fantastically, in shops people actually want to use. It's only monthly issues in dedicated comic shops where they seems to be selling less well.

Spiney O'Sullivan
6/4/2017 12:49:16 pm

Trades are the only way to buy comics as far as I'm concerned. It's too expensive otherwise. At £2.99 for 32 pages that take about 15 minutes to read if you're really slowing down to savour the art, it's basically the form of entertainment with the worst cost-to-amount-of-fun ratio. And I'm an adult with a job saying that. There's no way most kids can afford to keep up with 17 different series in this week's Marvel crossover event.

I will get monthlies if I really want to support a new book, for example John Allison's amusing finding-yourself-at-uni comedy Giant Days (read it!). Otherwise, I mainly buy indies from local comic book stores and cons. For bigger titles (currently just Assassin's Creed) I can wait till it hits Amazon.

Harry Steele
5/4/2017 02:10:25 pm

I agree that Marvel blaming diversity is barking up the wrong tree and that it's the confusing crossover events that turn most people off. I keep wanting to jump on some of the big characters of Marvel (and DC) but they seem to be always building up to (or recovering from) a massive event that requires me to purchase multiple issues from other characters to get the full story.

(Even Marvel's recent Star Wars comics did this - I was happily getting the 'main' SW comic when suddenly the (admittedly excellent) Vader comic took over for a couple of issues and screwed up the numbering!)

However, I have found the switches to 'Female' Thor, Ms. Marvel, Captain Marvel etc. not only wonderful jumping on points for new readers but also a fantastic way to tell fresh stories.

Ms Marvel in particular had a wonderful and exciting start - I hadn't felt so excited about a character is such a long time as it tapped into what makes super hero comics great: the wish-fulfillment of the powerless becoming powerful and learning to do the right thing. The fact that she was pakistani was not only great for representation (I've seem little girls cosplaying her - it melts the heart!) but it made the standard origin story feel fresher, especially as a young Muslim girl has a very different family life from every other hero we'd seen so far.

Although I understand the frustration of having an 'all-new' (read: diverse) character taking on the mantle of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk etc and thereby saying bye-bye to their alter egos there's also an argument to be made that a totally new character doesn't have the same impact as one that has already been around for decades. (It also helps the new character be more about their abilities more than their background).

Anyway, whilst I'm here you should totally read Saga (from Image comics) if you wishing to read something more like how comics should be, rather than the mess Marvel and DC have made them.

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 04:20:54 pm

Funnily enough... my other half is reading Saga at the minute. I keep meaning to give it a go.

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PeskyFletch
8/4/2017 07:44:28 pm

Saga is great, don't get me wrong, but i found the Prophet series that started around the same time to be one of the best comics i've ever read. Very creative and if you're an art guy you will love it.

Paul Milne
6/4/2017 12:51:00 am

I loved in the 90s when Ghost Rider was replaced by Vengeance, Peter Parker replaced by Ben Reilly, Thunderstrike instead of Thor etc. I'm all for different versions of characters, I don't see female Thor, Amadeus Cho Hulk etc being any different to the many times characters have been replaced in the past. And if it brings in readers that aren't ageing straight white males? Fantastic! Plus Stevesy Rogers and Male Thor are still around in some capacity, and we all know they'll be back in the spotlight.

My main problem with Marvel is I find the stories kinda dull just now, and the art is too slick and fancy. It's all very competent but it's lacking a spark? I like my comics to be a bit grimy and inky. Probably just I'm getting on a bit. They're increasingly not aimed at me, and that's pretty great for the health of the medium.

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SweetMrGibs
5/4/2017 02:52:29 pm

Biffo, I feel exactly the same way - I used to be an avid Marvel/Dark Horse comics reader, but now only read The Walking Dead (I'm to invested to stop now). However, I would thoroughly recommend picking up the Marvel Zombies omnibus. It's great, particularly the series which involves Ash from the Evil Dead.

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Mr Biffo
5/4/2017 04:20:15 pm

I did indeed read the first couple of Marvel Zombies series... but clearly didn't stick around long enough to even realise Ash from the Evil Dead was in it...!

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Kohhna link
7/4/2017 05:06:02 pm

Garth Ennis's Crossed > TWD

Treacle
5/4/2017 03:09:00 pm

The Marvel reboot idea should be used in more long running, episodic character driven media. Imagine the delight of watching Eastenders: Walford Infinity in which Reg Cox survived after receiving cybernetic enhancements from a time travelling Frank Butcher , Pete Beale is a sentient deep fat fryer and Dot Cotton has become a feral cannibal prowling Walford underground after drinking a sweet sherry tainted with radioactive isotopes.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
5/4/2017 03:25:32 pm

Crisis in Infinite Rovers: when Dirty Den of Earth-BBC2A steals the final shard of the Quantum Crystal, the BBCverse is thrown into disarray. Unchecked by the Cosmic Guardians, the Mitchells of every dimension collude to alter time and save every Tiffany. In doing so, Earth-CBBC is destroyed forever, and the surviving channelverses must do battle to survive on the one remaining plane of existence: the remains of BBC3 floating in the digital void.

Can Ian Beale, three different Doctor Whos, and Tracy Beaker (lone survivor of the CBBCverse) put the worlds back to right? Or is there a traitor in their midst?

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RichardM
5/4/2017 03:31:01 pm

I bet Tramp Ian Beale from Earth-BBC1alpha4 is the *real* traitor. Watch out! He's got a bottle of Buckfast, and he's not afraid to use it!

Barry
5/4/2017 04:58:16 pm

For a moment on the URL and header I was like eh?

It's been bizarre because I've read the majority of the Deadpool run (the originals, Cable and Deadpool, I drifted after the Skrull secret invasion) and classic X-Men.

The shameful thing about the Marvel resets is these characters they are creating would crash and burn were it not for them being shoehorned into these main characters which just craps on everyone.

Dredd's always been Dredd, I don't know whether or not you missed out on the Day of Chaos/Trifecta arc but that's definitely worth reading.

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S Hawke
5/4/2017 07:16:47 pm

I gave up on Marvel when Death's Head was killed off by his boring replacement Death's Head 2, in a fight that was about a page long.

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PeskyFletch
8/4/2017 07:47:01 pm

He got better.

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Chris Wyatt
5/4/2017 10:58:38 pm

I used to have a daily routine of reading online comics. I'd read the Garfield strip, and there were a couple of strips on Dumm Comics that I'd look at. It's nice to see that Dumm Comics is still alive. I think a couple of my favourite strips on there ended up getting replaced (one being the Kimbo comic) and then I lost interest.

I used to read the Beano and I still have some of my collection at my parents house. Unfortunately my mum chucked a lot of them out. Other than that, I never really got into comics. I think it's partly down to lack of space, and it can be quite an expensive hobby.

Would like to incorporate reading a comic into my morning routine again, as it's a nice distraction from the daily grind.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
6/4/2017 09:06:13 am

I didn't realise Dumm Comics was still around. If you liked Skadi, Katie Rice is now doing the delightful (of melancholy) Camp Weedonwantcha after winning a Penny Arcade contest to get featured on their site as a regular feature. It's great: http://campcomic.com/

My morning webcomic list used to be pretty long. Now it's mainly just Penny Arcade, Bad Machinery, the follow-up to Scary-go-Round, and the once-weekly Bobbins. If you haven't read any of those (most are by the same guy, John Allison), give them a shot.

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Chris Wyatt
6/4/2017 02:04:58 pm

Yeah, I forgot about it and was really surprised to find it was still going.

I used to follow Katie Rice's blog, and did read Skadi, but not religiously.

Cheers for the suggestions. I want to get back into a few good webcomics again, so I'll see if any of those tickle my fancy.

Spiney O'Sullivan
6/4/2017 05:26:25 pm

Perhaps ironically, Bad Machinery ended today, but new strips will be appearing on the site because John Allison never stops working.

DEAN
6/4/2017 08:55:29 am

One cool run that Marvel DID do reasonably recently was the Hawkeye run written by Matt Fraction. I mean, any comic that includes a story from a dog's POV has gotta be cool. Very stylish artwork from David Aja and yeah, some great books.

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PeskyFletch
8/4/2017 07:48:29 pm

That was good, not really that recent though. Yo!

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Col. Asdasd
6/4/2017 10:12:17 am

So forgive me if this sounds glib, but your complaint is that comics are currently a sprawling mass of infinitely broken, stitched together and rebooted continuity?

Is there a point beyond the late eighties when this wasn't the case? Genuinely curious; I don't read comics because this is the exact impression I always had of them.

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Kohhna link
7/4/2017 05:02:58 pm

Meh, fuck all that shit. Pick up some other Image titles that aren't The Walking Dead, Image are absolutely killing it at the minute. Ones I'd recommend: Saga, Alex + Ada, Shutter, Descender (the artwork on this is amazing), Bloodshot, Sex Criminals (well, the first two volumes anyway), Paper Girls, The Wicked + The Divine is much hyped and overrated but its still worth the read. Each exist in their own world with its own continuity and will scratch that itch if you feel the need. Also, get the TPB of She-Hulk from a couple of years ago, it stands alone and is unreal, it concentrates as much on Jennifer Waters day job as a lawyer as much as the Super-Hero stuff, classic Marvel.

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Oliver Wright
9/4/2017 08:45:45 am

Comic search: for the last fifteen years or so I've been fruitlessly searching for a scan of a comic strip from the Beezer or the Topper which features a robot being revealed as the character 'Beakie Bain'. Reason being, it's someone I know's nickname, from that strip, and I'd like to make a funny birthday card featuring it.

Any help gratefully received!

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Striker link
11/4/2017 02:09:25 pm

I just read the striker cartoon in the sun on my lunch break.
It's got an Asian man in it.
I didn't really mind - so I'm with you on the diversity thing in cartoons.

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