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CAN YOU SEPARATE ART FROM THE ARTIST? THOUGHTS ON PROJARED, EARTHWORM JIM & RANDY PITCHFORD

4/6/2019

43 Comments

 
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Social media: good thing or bad thing? It's a question that will likely never have a definitive answer, given that the engine of social media is humanity, with all its mix of good and bad.

My take? So long as you can remain one step removed from it, and don't let it become a replacement for a real life, social media shows us another side of who we are, filtered through tweets and Instagram posts. But... it's just one side - we're never going to get the whole picture of a person from their online persona. 

Oddly, it's something I've really become aware of in the past few years. There are people I've met - YouTubers and their ilk - who are completely different in real life to how I perceived them from their public profile. We're complicated, multifaceted, beings, and just because someone might one day act a bit dickish online doesn't mean they are a dick. 

We're not any one thing; who we are is a mix of our inner and outer selves, and... well... this is all getting a bit wanky. 
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KNOCK-ON WOULD
One of the knock-on effects of social media is that we are now given unprecedented access to public figures. Back in the 70s, a showbiz nonce could operate under the radar. We never got a look at the day-to-day lives of our idols; now they can Instagram their toilet business, should they so wish.

They can also display their sensitivity, volatility, their insecurities, and have a momentary emotional reaction frozen for posterity, because they let their guard down long enough to share it publicly. And then they can end up forever being judged for it.

For better or worse, celebrities - who, like the rest of us, are quite, quite flawed - are able to put any passing thought into a Tweet and boot it out into the world.

Thoughts from a decade back can be dredged up and used to judge a person as they are today. And judge we do, because it makes us feel a bit better about our own flaws. It gives a sense of power to beat down a public figure - and the bigger they are the bigger the dopamine hit when we're able to revel in their failings. 


Which brings me to this; is it possible to separate art from the artist?

JIM SAL-A-BIM!
You see, I was very excited when I heard that there was a new Earthworm Jim game on the way, even if it was in development for that weird new Intellivision console.

Then I read about it, and that led me down a rabbit hole where I discovered that Doug TenNapel - creator of Earthworm Jim, who'll be involved with the new game - has a history of homophobic remarks (and also, in the past, wrote for right-wing news outlet Breitbart).

I had no idea about any of this until recently; had I not known it, I'd have bought a new Earthworm Jim quite happily... and now I'm not sure I will. 

Wait. No. Scratch that. It's not about will - that implies it's some moral choice. It's more that I'm not sure I can. My enjoyment of it would be too coloured by what I have read about the game's creator. But is that right? How many albums, or games, or movies have I enjoyed without knowing that the people who made them had some dubious lifestyles or opinions? 

I mean, take Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford. He has a long history of controversy (including allegations of stealing money from employees and physical assault). Most recently, he tweeted out a video of a cat being attacked by a crab (no, really), and when this received the inevitable public outcry, he claimed he'd merely been "curious" to see how people would react.

It was a social experiment all along!!!

Pitchford has worked on some of my favourite franchises; Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Borderlands... In this instance, ignorance would've been bliss, but now those games are tainted for me. Is it wrong to want to hold public people to such high ideals? Is it wrong to be so crushed when they fail to live up to our expectations?!
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PROHOLE
And then there's ProJared. I admit, I'd never even heard of ProJared until people on my timeline started tweeting about him. Now all I know about ProJared is that he's some guy who probably cheated on his wife, and had set up a weird, creepy, message board where he and his fans could swap nudes.

He has all but disappeared from public life since posting a statement from a few weeks back alleging that his wife was abusive, and he acted in a pervy way with her full blessing.

This sort of unprecedented access is great in so many ways; there's a level of transparency and accountability that there never was in the past. Of course, having that also allows it to be exploited by a mob mentality. This isn't intended to be a defence, but often when the mob descends, it's typically based upon the tip of an iceberg that we can see; we never get the backstory, the motivations, the inner world...

The mob gains its own momentum based upon hearsay. We get the signal and swarm over someone like ants stripping the flesh from a dead gecko. 

We see and know more than ever about celebrities... but we still never have the full picture. It's all too easy to bring someone down with an allegation, by letting them be tried by the court of public opinion. There's this whole "cancel culture" we're now living in, and there but for the grace go any of us. Frankly, it scares the heck out of me, because we're all wired to think 'No smoke without fire'... and I'm as guilty of it as anybody.

I'll probably never listen to another Morrissey album again, and I don't think I can even bring myself to listen to The Smiths.

​Ryan Adams - whose music I loved - I haven't played since stories broke about him. Graham Linehan has become such an obsessively transphobic bully that I could never again watch something he'd written. My favourite comics artist from when I was growing up has expressed some views that trouble me... though I still follow him on Twitter, because - thus far - those views are political, and as far as I can tell he doesn't openly support a far-right political party.

But, again, no smoke without fire - right? - and it has unquestionably soured how I view his work; art that I loved so much as a teenager that I copied some of it to paint a mural on my bedroom wall, at an age when I never had such a window onto his opinions and thoughts. 
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DISSOCIATING
Don't get me wrong; I don't immediately dissociate from all people who have different political leanings to me. If I did that I'd never see much of my family again, and I'd lose several friends who I like very much. I also think it's important not to live in a bubble, and to listen to views from elsewhere. 

One of my favourite people in the world is a pro-Brexit, Boris supporting, Trump-lover - but that's not the entirety of who he is.

Obviously, I'd not want to be his friend anymore if I found out he was a bit nonce-y, but I do think that often on social media we're not seeing the truth of a person, because the truth of a person can't be contained in a tweet. It's easier to judge someone because we're not seeing that, maybe, they actually have a lot of positive attributes too. Like I say... we're complex.

What's more, we all need to be allowed to make mistakes. I was incredibly disappointed when James Gunn was fired from Guardians of the Galaxy 3 over his decade-old "jokes" (but could also see that Disney had no choice). And then when he was reinstated, I was glad that the signal was being sent that we all move on.

In an ideal world, we screw-up, and then we learn from those mistakes, and we become a better person. Gawd knows, I think I'm a better person than I was ten years ago, when I was going through an extremely tough time, and it all manifested in behaviour that certainly could have been - and probable was - viewed as dickish, rather than the actions of somebody who was flailing. 

I'm just glad I wasn't on Twitter back then, and had the sense to step away when I finally realised I'd hit rock bottom. 

SHOULD-ME-DO
But it all brings us round to whether we should separate art from artist, and there's a huge red alert in that question: the word "should".

Again, it comes back to whether we "can". In many of the cases above, I just can't. It's how I'm wired. I can't listen to Ryan Adams now without wondering what else he was getting up to while recording said record.

​That's about me, rather than him; when I'm looking at the artwork of my favourite comics artist, I'm paranoid that I'll somehow subliminally absorb his politics. Which is ludicrous given that I have friends with right-wing views - but, again, with them I can see more of who they are, because I'm not peering through the pinhole of social media, and basing my entire opinion of a person on one tiny sliver of them.

So... I dunno. It's something I struggle with constantly. I really want to play a new Earthworm Jim game, but I don't think I can.

​Who loses out most in that equation - me or Doug TenNapel? 
43 Comments
Nikki
4/6/2019 10:08:03 am

ProJared is paedophile. He solicited nude pictures from, and sent nude pictures to, underage folks. That's not rumour, it happened, and someone I know was one of the children groomed by him.

Can't separate that from this content.

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Mr Biffo
4/6/2019 10:11:00 am

I know. I was just using him as an example of where it's a good thing; I mention that there's a level of transparency and accountability because of social media.

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Nikki
4/6/2019 11:18:55 am

Oh yeah I was just saying that's something I can't separate either. Didn't mean it as a dig at what you wrote <3 <3 <3 *hugs and kis.... nah not the kisses*

Martin
4/6/2019 02:51:39 pm

Thank you Nikki. I've been waiting for somebody to finally use that word and call him what he actually is, but everybody (including myself) seems too scared to say it; ProJared is a paedophile.

I realise of course Biffo that you're not excusing this behaviour in any way, and that your intent was to show that sometimes it is right for others to judge and shun the work of an individual.

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elmo
5/1/2023 07:35:13 pm

oh you mean those 2 people who's claims where proven as false and made up?

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lilock3
4/6/2019 10:15:56 am

As long as the work doesn't reflect, contain or endorse the views of the individual, then I thing we *should* be able to continue to enjoy their work. Enjoying the work of someone with views that you disagree with doesn't mean you agree with those views or that person's actions. If I eat meal from a recipe by Antony Worrall Thompson then that doesn't mean I endorse shoplifting.

That being said, I used to enjoy listing to Rolf Harris's silly songs when I was a kid, and there's no way I could now without being reminded of all the awful stuff he's done...

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Mike
4/6/2019 10:16:57 am

Personally, I don't really care about the artist if the art is good, at least to some extent. It's a huge cliché at this point to say it, but John Lennon was a about half his life a really shitty human being, but that doesn't stop the Beatles from being the Beatles.

Using Morrissey as more recent example - does him supporting For Britain stop me from listening to Vauxhall and I and thinking it's a masterpiece? No. Does it stop me from listening to his latest covers album and thinking it's a waste of time? No. My opinion on those records isn't going to change because of Moz having questionable politics.

However! Would it stop me from going to see him in concert? Yeah, it would. That would be a personal connection that I'm not I interested in anymore. And for me theres a real difference between listening to a record and a live performance. Buying a ticket for a gig is - to me - essentially buying two hours of company with the artist. And I don't want to spend two hours hanging out with Morrissey any more.

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Geebs
4/6/2019 11:47:18 am

It’s always rather surprised me that so many people were able to listen to Morrissey’s music and not realise that he must be an asshole.

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Dick Turdpin
4/6/2019 10:18:01 am

If someone presents themselves as a dick to the populace, I have no reason at all to presume they are anything other than a dick: even if there was proof they were not a penis, just the fact that are willing to present themselves and make money of acting like one immediately removes any goodwill. It's irresponsible and selfish to say 'Hey I act like this and it's a good laugh, but I don't agree with others acting like this, yeah?'

Also, If someone's online persona is being a dick, and someone likes that persona, is the 'liker' themselves a dick? I would argue yes.

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Winkle
4/6/2019 10:25:37 am

The difficulty here is that Youtubers are ostensibly presenting an unvarnished peek into their very id, so separating art from artist is impossible. If they are just pretending to be a weapon, their 'art' is inherently false

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RichardM
4/6/2019 10:35:29 am

ProJared was one of the players in the D&D stream I listen to on the way to work sometimes (DMed by Chris Perkins, lead story guy for D&D and all round class act), which has been shitcanned because of all this. He certainly seemed like a nice guy on stream, although the storyline in which he was a star-crossed lover with the woman he cheated on his wife with does have to be viewed in a somewhat different light!

The social media circus started with the cheating bit - I can understand why, but it’s all a bit Daily Star gossip column for me - and the paedo allegations arrived slightly later. Nikki above has info closer to the source than me: I hope your friend is getting the support they need and has reported him to the police, if they feel able.

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Nikki
4/6/2019 11:23:32 am

Thank you. It's difficult to report stuff that happens over the internet because there's arguments about which country's law enforcement is responsible for dealing with it... but yeah things are happening.

To be honest, cheating on your wife - not nice, but not illegal and relationships can be repaired and people can grow and move on. That was all a bit Daily Star, I agree. But once you send pics of your junk to kids... it's all over.

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RichardM
4/6/2019 11:52:55 am

I’m being a bit of a hypocrite in condemning the gossip column, in that I read nearly every comment on the matter on Twitter and installed Reddit on my phone to keep an eye on the car crash that was his subreddit for a day or two. I had a vested interest with regards my D&D podcast listening, I told myself...! I do not feel greatly edified by what I read, but anyway. I hope he gets what he deserves. Thank goodness for Athletico Mince to fill the boring drive.

Mr Biffo
4/6/2019 12:04:14 pm

This is when I think social media can be a good thing. It gives victims a platform and a voice, when in the past - the 70s, 80s, even the 90s - you had the likes of Savile and Glitter able to get anyway with literally anything. It kind of evens the playing field a bit. Glad to hear things are happening on the legal front, Nikki.

SpaceOmega5000
6/6/2019 05:52:23 am

"But once you send pics of your junk to kids... it's all over. "
That's not what justice is about out. No matter the mistake, a person is supposed to fix himself by not being into that anymore, especially since it's not even close to being the worse thing. Discouraging another chance to live a happy legal life also discourages change likely and its unfair to a human being that is just as important as everyone else in the world as human beings alone.

Alison Gator
4/6/2019 10:39:14 am

I don't think I've ever agreed that someone's political views make up just a small part of them

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peakyfletch
4/6/2019 10:39:42 am

Biffo, just out of curiosity which comic book artist iis it?

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Lennox
4/6/2019 10:46:00 am

Jim Davis

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Christian Dabnor link
4/6/2019 01:17:17 pm

At a guess, Frank Miller?

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AdeR
4/6/2019 11:32:47 am

An incandescent Glinner and his furious supporters arriving in 3... 2... 1...

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OnlyManWhoCan
4/6/2019 12:02:22 pm

I think you're okay with Father Ted, as that was co-written by Linehan and I think it was filtered through enough talent for my enjoyment not to be impacted too much.

His later work on stuff is a little more difficult for me - partly because it's because I have far more affection for Ted than, say, Big Train or The I.T. Crowd, but I think as he got more creative control his views came more to the fore.

As I understand the narrative he's been getting worse and doubling down on the discourse (it perplexes me as he seems to have no skin in the game, as it were - he just wants to win the argument).

I'd like to think that he was a nicer man when he was making stuff like the I.T. Crowd, but weirdly the other day I caught the finale of that show from 2013. In the episode 2 of the characters accidentally and unfairly become the subjects of a viral internet shaming campaign - which Linehan clearly feels has now happened to him in the last couple of years

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Magnus
4/6/2019 12:09:30 pm

A lot of people have a very confusing view on separate art from the artist. It always seems, for them, that this applies in the abstract, and for stuff they don't like...but when it's a thing they DO like? Then it's okay.

But the way I see it, you need to be prepared to justify it. You need to be prepared for someone to say "you like X but creator of X is problematic, so why do you financially support it and endorse it?"

There is plenty of art and content out there not created by problematic people. [and before anyone says "how do you know they aren't problematic?!" stop. if you want to live your life expecting that everyone might be a racist/paedophile/abuser then you do that, and revel in your misery]

When you phrase it like "Who loses out most in that equation - me or Doug TenNapel? " it's apparent that you feel like you *should* get to play it, and excuse yourself, because YOU will lose out more than him. Just play another game. Play a game not by a homophobic POS. Play a game and financially reward decent creators.

And yes, other non-problematic creators will work on Earthworm Jim, and not supporting the game because of one man does impact them. ...good. Maybe that will send a message to the company not to hire bigots in 2019.

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Johnny Blanchard link
4/6/2019 12:10:10 pm

I do find it very hard to continue supporting people when this kind of stuff comes out, but the thing that stings the most is that I don't feel like I can enjoy previous works. Earthworm Jim is a great example, the original was a favourite of mine and was created by a great team, the vast majority of which are probably great people, but I can't enjoy it anymore.

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Daniel O'Connor
4/6/2019 12:37:38 pm

I have to say, if the art is good, I can totally seperate the two. Sure, Morrissey has of late been far more open in revealing that he is a bit of a bellend, but this is not really new information, and I still like most of what he is churning out (though the covers album is pish). The other issue is, as hinted by Magnus above, other people do work on these things, not just the people who are an issue. I suppose it depends on the severity of the transgression. It's an extreme example, and I never really liked them anyway, but I did always feel sorry for the rest of the Lostprophets when it was revealed what a fucking monster their lead singer was.* They had no idea (I would hope) so that's years of their lives where they had done work I'm sure they were proud of down the shitter.

*Of course, this is not to say they had it worse than any actual victims, etc

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Martin
4/6/2019 01:02:47 pm

This is something that can only be judged on a case by case basis, I feel; unless the person in question has done something so abhorrent you just can't even contemplate it. It's also a personal decision.

For example, I love The Smiths and some of Morrissey's solo stuff, but he is a racist scumbag. It doesn't stop me listening to that music, though.

When it comes to Michael Jackson? Well, the idea of him abusing kids literally turns my stomach, so I steer clear of anything to do with him.
Of course, someone else will be appalled I could listen to anything to do with Morrissey - and I understand, but it's a very personal decision. Racism will turn other people's stomach's just as paedophilia turns mine.

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Piers Canadas
4/6/2019 01:20:14 pm

It is all a bit tricky isn't it. Been pondering it a lot myself.
Watched the Jackson docu, and it seems pretty clear cut that he was a predatory paedo.
It seems bizarre to defend someone just because you like their music, particularly as fanatically and mean-spiritedly as his supportes are doing so.
That said, I'm leaning to being able to separate the 2.
He was loathsome, but my foot will still tap to Billy Jean.

I won't listen to Morrisey, but then i never really like any of his solo stuff. I still love the Smiths, it's just I feel weirdly guilty when songs come up on one of my gargantuan playists in shuffle mode.

Basically if you're still ok with using Gil Sans font, and still nod appreciatively at the timelessness of the design everytime you get on the underground, at some point you have to admit to yourself that lines get drawn.

My heart sunk a bit when I read the Linehan bit, oh no i thought, another one gone. My admittedly cursory investigation consists of one sympathetic interview in the Irish Times, where his position didn't seem drastically unreasonable, but then perhaps i've missed reams of horrid tweets, as generally speaking i avoid twitter, and not even because of that time Jack Dorsey filmed himself tripping over an old lady and laughing...

Anyway, I guess bottom line is I'll probably play nu-earthworm jim for the great gaming memories (which it will doubtlessly taint), rather than worrying that some idiot who writes for Brietbart will get a small share of the money spent, and I'll still laugh at Father Ted.

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Christian Dabnor link
4/6/2019 01:27:38 pm

I love the films of Roman Polanski. I don't agree with what he did. There was a period where I tried to make excuses (and you have to admit, living through the Holocaust and the Manson Murders would mess most people up), but no longer can. I do still watch his films however. I got rid of all of my HP Lovecraft books because he was a massive racist. I think one of the more confusing cases is that of Chris Langham. I used to love People Like Us, but then there were his convictions. Then there was the suggestion that they weren't true. Maybe. I can't bring myself to watch his stuff. I'm not sure what my point is, or whether there was one, or whether I'm just identifying the fact that I'm a hypocrite - accepting Polanski because of his genius, but not Langham and Lovecraft because I don't like them as much, rather than there being a moral distinction.

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Rudy Manchego link
4/6/2019 01:59:31 pm

I wrestle with the same all the time when it comes to art and the artist. I tend to try and go on a situation by situation basis, look at what I know and their involvement in the art I want to see. In the case of someone like ProJared (who I also knew b*gger all about until the hoo ha), his personality is pretty much the driving force o the content and what he was accused of, the evidence, mean I would make a clear choice not to watch his stuff. A creative talent being involve in a video game when a whole studio might be behind it? I may think otherwise. I would still listen to the Smiths but I would not give money to anything Morrisey related. Also, I distinguish between action and political opinion. If someone states something I disagree with but is not rude or offensive, it wouldn't put me off. However, if it is offensive, discriminatory or otherwise horrendous then yes, I'm out.

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Andy Ogier link
4/6/2019 04:05:09 pm

I find it extremely difficult to separate art from artist also.

I can't watch The Naked Gun without thinking of OJ Simpson's murderous nature, and I still shudder when I remember the times I wanted to be in Gary Glitter's gang. I certainly don't want to watch Jim "fix it" for anybody ever again, either...oooof!

When you can't separate the man (or woman) from the art, the art is forever tainted. Viewing tainted art makes me sad, and therefore becomes a burden. I know I'm better off without it.

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Johnc
4/6/2019 05:17:58 pm

I had a similar conversation with my wife last week and I'll bring up the point I did then (that she said was stupid).... Have you ever seen the crap that Eric Gill got up to? And yet he's the creator of one of the most used typefaces in the world. I sometimes will see something using Gill Sans and think "pervert" but I can't dismiss anything written in Gill Sans, right? So there comes a point when the disconnect between artist and art is such that the actions of the artist just don't matter - and I guess that'll be different for everyone.

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Keith
4/6/2019 07:51:59 pm

Not incandescent, but do think you’re wrong about Graham Linehan. The word “transphobic” is thrown around a lot, often with not a great deal of foundation. Linehan has a short fuse for sure, but the views that are called transphobic are often nothing of the sort

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Paul
7/6/2019 03:36:24 pm

He's a vile transphobe, mate. Sorry to break the news to you. If you think his views are not transphobic then maybe you need to have a good word with yourself.

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Random Reviewer
15/6/2019 08:12:43 am

On the face of it his views seem quite reasonable, but he's gone so far as to post old, pre-transitionpics of a trans person he disagrees with. That's a scumbag move.

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Penyrolewen
4/6/2019 09:41:21 pm

Tricky, this. I was going to say that I can separate art from artist if it’s just different politics to me but then I realised that that can include racism, LGBT etc. and that’s hard to ignore. Then I thought maybe if artists had committed crimes, that would be easier to condemn. But I’m still a Wayne Kramer (musician) fan even though he served time for drugs offences. I’m sure there are better examples that I can’t think of. And Worral Thompson (not that I’m a fan) - surely his shop lifting is more of a mental health issue than a criminal one?

And what about artists from other eras/cultures? I liked (some of) G K Chesterton’s books before I found out he was an anti-Semite. I’ve never noticed any anti-semitism in the books (not saying there isn’t any, just that I didn’t notice any. If I had it would have put me off) so can I enjoy the books whilst marvelling about what an idiot he was? I’m not giving him money, he’s dead, nor do I support his views but his books are great. ‘Around the World in 80 Days’ contains some truly shocking racism but is it just ignorant or were those the author’s informed and deliberate opinions?

So, I don’t know either. Like someone said, it seems to be on a case-by-case basis with me, with severity of action/ opinion definitely a factor. Jimmy Savile and Lostprophets are definitely out, I do listen to some hip hop with dodgy views expressed, I listen to John Lennon, I wouldn’t listen to Morrisey even if I liked him but I, like Biffo, have friends who have totally opposite politics to me. The modern world is tough isn’t it? (Sarcasm pointed out here in case it’s not obvious)

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Penyrolewen
4/6/2019 09:44:44 pm

Oh, I’m not saying that I’m logical, consistent or right in my approach either, just that this made me think a bit and I don’t know. You’re welcome to this wisdom!

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Billy Dewitt
4/6/2019 10:58:15 pm

I understand that it can be difficult to fathom that only 99.999999999999% of creative people online are liberal, and you run into one of the conservatives.

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Penyrolewen
5/6/2019 06:58:25 am

I don’t think it’s being conservative (big or small c) that’s an issue for me. I listen to Micah P Hinson, and he’s an Obama-hating, anti healthcare conservative. It’s racism, sexism, anti LGBT stuff that is potentially a problem for me.
If Michael Gove came up with a good album I’d listen to it, I think. If he came out as a massive racist, I don’t know if I would. Like I say, I don’t know or have the answers but it’s an interesting debate.
Like James Walker, I’m out for nonces but not sure about other crimes. Murder and rape would get me out too I guess. Not a new debate but video games are are new context for it, for me anyway.

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James Walker
5/6/2019 12:21:05 am

Depends what the “crime” is for me.
Anything noncey and I’m out, won’t listen to The Who for that reason.

No big deal.
Most of their music was shit anyway!

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loopedstranger
5/6/2019 09:08:11 am

It is an interesting one and I often think for me it’s an emotional reaction that i then try and reason backstory. The art form and the levels don’t type of emotional connection I feel to it makes a big difference; I love video games but I can’t imagine not playing one because of the views/conduct of the creator, if those didn’t manifest in the game itself, and I think that’s because it’s a different type of connection- for me - than I feel to a piece of music.

I used to think that if the art was great enough it could transcend anything a creator did, but the Jacko affair has shaken that I think; Spotify threw one of his tracks at me the other day and I just couldn’t listen to it. Interestingly i can still listen to Jackson 5 stuff from when he was a kid, maybe because i see the young Jackson as almost a different person - or at least one who hadn’t done those things yet.

Agree with others who have said it makes a difference if some is a team effort (film/games) generally rather than eg music. I think singers might be a special case all of their own - it’s often the people who we feel are expressing our own thoughts that we love the most, and we in bite them into our homes; it’s almost a personal betrayal when they do something beyond the pale.

It wasn’t Brendan McCarthy was it?

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loopedstranger
5/6/2019 09:12:16 am

Aaarg sorry about the autocorrect fails ...

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Paul
5/6/2019 11:22:48 am

I have to admit to liking Eric Gill’s work. We all like his most well known typeface - Gill Sans. I bet everyone has used it at some point in their lives. We certainly see it every day. If you watch the BBC, it’s their corporate font. Their logo uses it. It’s part of the fabric of the country.

Eric Gill’s connections with the BBC extend as far as the sculptures on broadcasting house, becoming an important part of the architecture.

And yet, Eric Gill was a massive pervert. He kept diaries, so we know what kind of things he got up to. It’ll make your hair curl. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Gill

Yet, we seem to be able to disconnect that knowledge from the work he left behind.

As a side note, I genuinely like Gill Sans, but I prefer to use Johnston which is the typeface used on the London Underground. Gill Sans is Eric Gill retooling Johnston (Johnston taught Gill, so there’s a connection).

So, it’s not just modern types getting up to no good - it’s historical too, and you can bet your boots that there’s a lot more unpleasantness from those you like hidden in the shadows.

Never meet your heroes.

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Shaggy McD
17/7/2019 03:08:24 pm

This is stupid. If the first thing we did, as human beings, was judge each other on our political preferences, very few of us would actually get along. As a bartender, I've noticed that most people are willing to ignore the politics of others to simply get along with them, if not to have a really great time. Once politics starts creeping into the conversation, the peace is almost always interrupted. If we had a live feed into everyone's brain, would any of us even have a job tomorrow?

Accept the fact that no one is perfect. We all have our own histories and experiences. Stop trying to be a political hammer; It's exhausting and you will make few friends when all you see are nails.

Politics should be the very last thing you are and the very last thing you see in others.

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Shaggy(again)
17/7/2019 05:03:11 pm

Furthermore, it amazes me how quickly the "tolerant" political classes in this country would point fingers and call names of those they disagree with, while being warm and welcoming to groups who are far more extreme and intolerant than any found in America. (There's a difference between not understanding the gays, and throwing them off of buildings) Also, these "tolerant" people would shut down the First Amendment for anyone who does not think or speak them, while calling others "Nazis"(that's called Irony).

It's all political theater. The people telling you to think a certain way often live outside of their own rules. It's extremely easy to tell people what they want to hear. It's a whole other thing to practice it and deal with the consequences.

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