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A FEW WORDS FOR MANCHESTER - by Mr Biffo

23/5/2017

56 Comments

 
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So, here's a thing. Digitiser2000 has, I've realised, become a bit more sensible in the last few months.  I think I'm getting all my stupid funnies itch scratched over on Found Footage, and when I come back here I mostly want a break from relentless nonsense.

That was going to change today. I was going to do a rather tongue-in-cheek feature... and then I woke up this morning to the news of the Manchester terrorist attack, and - suddenly - being funny felt like the wrong approach.

Don't worry. I know, I know, that if we change our behaviour we're letting the terrorists win, and all that. Normal service will be resumed shortly.

Nevertheless, this has affected me - like I'm sure it has you. It happened here, at home, to ordinary people on a night out. This wasn't soldiers or policemen being targeted. It was normal kids at a concert.

I'm not going to do that thing where I try to tangentially act as if I've some massive personal stake in this - "Oh, my cousin knows someone who sort of thinks he knows somebody who might've once been to Manchester" - but nevertheless, this particular incident has hit me more than most. 

​It's the fact that the intended targets seemed to be teenage girls - the same ages as my step-daughters (indeed, one of their best friends was meant to be seeing Ariana Grande later this week) - means that this time it really feels as if it could've been us. I remember taking my eldest daughter to a Steps concert years ago, and waiting for her in the atrium, like many of the parents who were no doubt doing the same last night. This one feels very real to me.

Apologies if this ends up being a stream-of-consciousness ramble. It'll have nothing to with video games... but I'm processing what it means to me, what it means to all of us in the grand scheme of things. I just want to write something.
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GROUNDED
Generally, I strive to stay rational and grounded when it comes to what is labelled terrorism. I mean, even the term feels dangerously loaded to me.

There are murders and attacks and assaults all the time which scarcely get reported on, because they've not been carried out by so-called Islamic extremists. The weight given to a "terrorist" attack - by the media and the authorities - often feels disproportionate, and delivers exactly the sort of propaganda victory the "terrorists" want. 

Anyone who commits a murder has wiring that has gone wrong, but they're all murderers. The only reason to label any one of them differently is in the pursuit of some ideological crusade. Us versus them. It feels as if there's something inherently racist about it.

Many of my generation grew up in the era of the IRA bombings. Twice - without realising - I walked right past an IRA bomb (or, at least, the site of where they were planted) in the hours before they exploded. I walked past the Admiral Duncan pub in Old Compton Street the day before that was blown up. I was meant to go into London for a meeting on the morning of the 7/7 bombings. And so on and on.

I don't think it ever affected my day-to-day life. It still always somehow seemed remote. I mean, in the grand scheme, there's virtually no chance any of us will be blown-up by terrorists. Statistically, we're much more likely to be killed by falling off a ladder.

Then there's that part of me which gets angry at how terrorist killings are politicised compared to similar attacks by lone nuts. A man drove his car into a crowd in the middle of Times Square last week - echoing the recent Westminster attack - but because he wasn't a Muslim extremist, it was virtually forgotten about the next day. The news cycle just moved on.

Then there's that other part of me which wonders just how many innocent people in Middle Eastern countries have been killed by wars or military action that the UK has been part of - that have been carried out, essentially, in my name.

How much has our intervention in that region caused this extremism? What right do we have to be outraged when they do the same to us? Who should we really be angry at?

YESTERDAY
And then something like yesterday's bombing happens, and because it's teenage girls who were the target, it suddenly brings it all home, and I get the anger and the rage and the fear that can lead to the rise of extreme points of view; how we can end up with a situation like Brexit. Why the likes of UKIP and Trump were able to capitalise on those fears. 

Ironically, it's likely the exact same anger, rage, fear and sense of impotence in the face of a far more powerful enemy which extremists feel. It might not be rational, it might not be decent, but it's a natural, very human, response. When people are cornered, when they are scared, they lash out, or try to remove what they believe is the source of that threat. Most of us, if our loved ones or way of life were threatened, would do anything to protect it.

Yet my teenage stepdaughters have Muslim best friends. Girls who are Ariana Grande fans just like them, from families who are no more extremist than we are. In my life, I've never met a Muslim who expressed anything other than the same dismay at terrorism that I'm feeling right now. In fact, it seems even more personal to them because they know they're going to be blamed.

And I'm saying this in the knowledge, at this point in time, that none of us know that this suicide attack is even linked to Islamic extremism.

​If I'm jumping to that conclusion, you can imagine the fervour the far-right have been whipped up into this morning. But, much as it pains me to admit... outside of certain professional trolls, I get it - I get the prejudice, I get the subtle brainwashing we've all been witness to. I get the anger, the fear, and the resentment, because I feel it too. I just refuse to let it take a hold of me.

​We have to be better than that.
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DEEP BREATH
We don't defeat terrorism - an ideology with no centralised structure - with our bombs, any more than suicide bombers will achieve their murky agenda by ripping apart families at an Ariana Granda concert. Anyone who is capable of taking a deep breath and being rational will know this. It's like firing a shotgun at a cloud to stop it raining.

The only way we defeat it is by stripping away the power of the word "terrorist". We have to do away with that word altogether. It is inherently dangerous.

Terrorism is described as an effort to achieve political aims by inflicting fear into the hearts of a civilian population. By somehow equating every terrorist incident with some shadowy, Bond-like, supervillan organisation we give them the precise power that they want. There's a reason that "terrorist" incidents happen in high-profile, public ways, because it's about using the media to further their agenda, and time and again the media and our politicians play into their hands. They actively collude with those who seek to hurt us.

Plus, we defeat it by standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Muslim communities, and showing them - for want of a better term - our love. We show kindness, not fear, not aggression nor anger. We don't add more fuel to the fear fire.

There has to be a different approach to all this. Everything we've tried so far has failed, or made the situation worse. We never had Muslims blowing up concerts when I was a kid. We have to ask what has happened on the world stage to get us here?! 

​PEACE
The IRA only stopped bombing us as a result of people sitting down and trying to understand one another. It was a peace process - not a war process. More fear, more aggression, more blame, just perpetuates the cycle.

And it has to end, because I don't want somebody I love getting blown up on a night out - and I doubt you do either.

I feel for the families of the Manchester dead. I feel for everyone who was caught up in this, and witnessed something that will scar them for the rest of their lives. I feel for every Muslim in Britain who, once again, must know that they'll be considered part of the problem by ignorant people.

This world often feels messed-up and wrong right now, but I truly believe that the good still outweighs the bad. This was one murderous prick who destroyed lives and families of countless more good people who had no stake in any bigger agenda. He was a murderer, whose values had likely been twisted by an ideology that was perpetuated as much by whoever put those ideas into his head, as our own media and governments.

Don't let the fear get the better of you. For all our sakes, stay strong. Stay rational. Be the kind of person you would want to be... and know in your heart that you can be. Don't let these sorts of incidents take hold of your darker, more base, instincts. Prove to yourself that love can be stronger than anything.

​Please play nice in the comments.
56 Comments
Lutzie
23/5/2017 09:50:14 am

Nothing much to say, but that was a nice read Mr Biffo. Mucho love & hugs. :)

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John
23/5/2017 02:57:02 pm

Yeah, cor, that is good. xxxxx

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Marc Chaggar
23/5/2017 09:55:23 am

Excellent words as always Biffo. I live on the outskirts of Manchester and the city is pretty shellshocked this morning, however we survived this once already in the 90s and will again.

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Damon link
23/5/2017 10:19:49 am

Hey, didn't know you read toothpaste for dinner.

Kinda a tangential point but I really don't have anything I can say about this that hasn't already been said, better.

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Voodoo76
23/5/2017 10:19:51 am

As always brilliantly written Paul, well done.

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Stoo
23/5/2017 10:23:57 am

Great post Biffo. I hope compassion and rationality will prevail.

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Mr Bump
23/5/2017 10:24:50 am

Well said.

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Treacle
23/5/2017 10:27:20 am

A very measured and thoughtful piece.

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Nick
23/5/2017 10:35:37 am

Very nicely put.

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blantipol
23/5/2017 10:49:05 am

"The IRA only stopped bombing us as a result of people sitting down and trying to understand one another. It was a peace process - not a war process."

This is the crux of it. Can you imagine the political fallout though, if someone suggested that we try and start some sort of peace process with ISIS / Daesh / whoever.

We like to simplify and reduce these people as much as possible - I guess it makes acts of such horrendous violence seem easier to process if we say that they're motiveless. That the perpetrators simply hate the west and want to destroy our way of life.

Even writing this I can feel myself resisting humanising the perpetrators. I don't want to say that maybe we should examine their grievances. I guess that's part of the problem.

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Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 10:51:03 am

I do know what you mean. It's not like the IRA, as there's not such a clear road through. It's not like we CAN sit down with their leaders. It's about changing our approach to the world, and treat everyone better - from all of us up day to day to our leaders. We have to change those ingrained prejudices.

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John
23/5/2017 11:23:36 am

The IRA methods were barbaric, but, essentially what the IRA wanted wasn't quite so unfathomable or otherworldly - they 'just' wanted an existing democratic EU member to have a slightly larger land mass; admittedly it was a selfish, unrealistic, and minority backed request, but a relatively benign one *in itself*. The vast majority of IRA members spent their days doing normal jobs, they did the same things you and me do, *most* would have given up their guns the second they got what they wanted. They were daily exposed to alternative views even if they didn't agree with them, even if they had no moral problem with gunning down a postman as 'agent of the crown' in the morning for a purely political statement and zero empathy with their relatives.

The problem with these more recent sorts of fundamentalist actors is that they want nothing that any sane person would ever want, or allow to happen to any other person, they have precisely zero capacity for rational discussion; they love the gun and the bomb just as much as the IRA, but as you say, that is pretty much useless against them. I don't have the answer, but cannot ever, and I say this with a heavy heart, imagine any sort of sensible negotiation with Islamists operating in the UK.

Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 11:30:54 am

I agree. When I say "peace process" I see it more about a wholesale social change. It has to start with us. Totally accept that this is a virtually impossible mountain to climb, though.

Alastair
23/5/2017 11:47:34 am

I can't reply directly to John, but I agree with the above (or below in this messaging system).

The IRA were a tad fundamentalist, going from civil rights to a perversion of Irish identity, but you could sit down with them. How could any government do the same with ISIS? Cede territory in Iraq and Syria so they can rape and murder essentially. They might be so desensitised that they don't care if their caliphate falls as long as they go down shooting.

Spiney O'Sullivan
23/5/2017 01:41:17 pm

This fundamental lack of a possible compromise with that group on any terms that basically decent people could accept is a big problem. You can't punch or shoot an ideology to death, but there's really no compromise to be reached here, given the fascist nightmares that Daesh and its ilk create anywhere they're in charge. The question is how to prevent people here from falling for the kind of thinking that causes this, which is a much bigger issue.

Clockwork Fool
23/5/2017 06:55:02 pm

It's really hard to compare the IRA situation with the ISIS/Daesh situation though. The IRA basically wanted a political result after all, so peace was a meaningfully possible course of action. Arguably the superior tactic.


Isis fundamentally do not want peace. They do not want co-existence. Theirs is a genocidal campaign against everything that isn't them. They are madmen playing at being twelfth century warlords, mass-murderers who have abandoned all pretence of modern civilisation.

There is no compromise to be reached on the extermination of all cultures in the region they have arbitrarily claimed as the home of their new empire. There is no validity to their cause or justification behind their wholesale slaughter, destruction of culture and historical artifacts, their attempts to wipe out entire peoples and religions and their mass enslaving of women and children.

And there is little point looking for empathy with the kind of desperate, lost souls who decide that striking out in the name of this quite literal barbarity against the nations that they call home is in some way a noble defence of a culture.

It's all very well saying that we should be careful not to vilify Muslims in general, and peace should be the goal of any civilised nation, but when it comes to combating this particular brand of brutal terror, love will not and cannot win the day. This isn't a matter of a persecuted minority lashing out at oppression. This isn't a matter of marginalised and mistreated people taking a forceful stand for what they believe in.

Turning the other cheek won't help. Negotiations are only meaningful if there is any chance they could ever be entered into in good faith. ISIS's goals cannot be met peacefully because the slaughter of anyone who opposes or who differs from them is explicitly one of their key goals. And that goes just as much for muslim sect's with differing interpretations as it does for minority Christian communities like the Yazidi or anyone unwise enough to be born in the west who they can't use to spread further chaos and bloodshed.

The worst thing that we can do here is not to allow the actions of terrorists to change our daily lives. It's to underestimate or fail to understand exactly what we're dealing with here.

Mass Murder is not a method that ISIS and ISIS inspired individuals use.

It is the goal.

We're farked
23/5/2017 07:32:36 pm

Spiney O'Sullivan knows what's up. There's no easy solution. Indeed, there might not be any solution. A tipping point will be reached - as it has in other parts of the world - where people will begin to comply simply to save their own skins. It's a slow, almost imperceptible process but we're well on the way. We need to start by acknowledging thatt an unreformed (and unreformable) religion be the root cause of the problem. That we
can't do that likely our fate.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
23/5/2017 09:08:59 pm

I can't help but feel that my words are being interpreted differently than intended. I meant more in the sense that there needs to be some way of stopping those on the margins of society falling into the clutches of madmen through the Internet, prison, or however else they meet these dangerous nutters. Not doing away with a religion, which as I've said, is impossible anyway.

We're farked
23/5/2017 11:08:14 pm

If you think I misinterpreted differently than you intended then I of course apologise. So to be clear: religion is absolutely the problem. Not one in particular, but one in particular is causing particular problems right now. Define 'madmen'? They're just people that interpret their particular book literally. That's by no popular definition 'mad'. That's just devout. If your devout and therefore follow the word of your particular religious manual then... what we see right now is the inevitable result. Those are my words, not any unintentional misinterpretation of yours. Sorry again.

We're farked
23/5/2017 11:09:51 pm

'you're', obviously. Sigh. But in the grand scheme of things, I think I'll allow myself the odd mental and literal typo.

Spiney O'Sullivan
24/5/2017 08:35:13 am

I agree that religions on the whole have a lot to answer for (I'm watching Netflix's The Keepers right now, and it's utterly, utterly infuriating), but as long as things like poverty, misery, trauma, and general unfairness exist, people are going to keep finding it as a coping mechanism, and others are going to use it as a control mechanism. There is no way to do away with an idea. The only non-barbaric solution is figuring out how to prevent the conditions that make people turn to its worse forms.

Kingsturg
23/5/2017 11:20:59 am

A very thoughtful piece. Well put.

Such a sad day.

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Jim Leighton (Future World Darts Champion) x
23/5/2017 11:24:32 am

Great piece, sums up what we're all feeling I guess

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RichardM
23/5/2017 11:56:27 am

A shameful act perpetrated by, undoubtedly, some idiot sucked in by hate and poison spewed by some lunatic. I agree entirely that we have to do something other than drop millions of pounds worth of bombs over tangientally associated places. But can we really engage with them on any level? Is their stated intent not eradication of our way of life? The whole thing is impossible and horrible. It makes me incredibly sad.

I'm from Northern Ireland and in no way relish any mention of the IRA - who, we must not forget, killed a hell of a lot more innocent people in the UK than Islamic suicide bombers ever have - but at least there was a way to make them stop.

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Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 12:04:00 pm

I don't think there can possibly be any "peace process" as there was at the end of The Troubles. It has to be something different.

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Clockwork Fool
23/5/2017 07:02:46 pm

A quick internet search gives us the following; That 3,600 people were killed during The Troubles, which the BBC article I skimmed describes as occurring over a thirty year period.

This CNN article I also found, claims that since 2014, ISIS has killed 2043 people in 143 attacks in 29 different countries across the globe (other than Iraq and Syria). http://edition.cnn.com/2015/12/17/world/mapping-isis-attacks-around-the-world/

Just, you know. To put a few things in perspective.

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RichardM
23/5/2017 07:31:56 pm

You'll note I wrote 'innocent people in the UK'. The comparison between the IRA and IS isn't really a good one, given that they are completely different barring that they both have set off a small number of bombs in England.

Even 1 person being murdered for whatever reason is too many.

Clive peppard
23/5/2017 12:29:45 pm

As a Mancunian this is appreciated. My eldest wanted to go but I didn't get tickets, her friends at school may or may not have gone. I'm spending the morning worrying about her and how it will affect that age group, and not just locally. We're supposed to protect and shield our children but when cowards attack them directly, well.. I'm at a loss.

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Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 12:44:21 pm

It's the photos of kids stumbling in the wake of it, wrapped in blankets - particularly young girls that broke me. Being the father of three, and three step-daughters, it has got to me much more than these things usually do. Feel properly bereft. Those poor kids.

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Clive peppard
23/5/2017 12:49:28 pm

Yep. Just looked at news and it's a list of girls that are still missing all of an age where all I can think is "that could have been mine". Nobody warned me about this bit of parenting.

RichardM
23/5/2017 02:28:56 pm

I hear you guys. Unimaginable situation for any parents involved, or even nearby. Terrifying even at a distance.

Also difficult for Ariana Grande, to be honest. You must feel a duty of care to concert attendees?

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Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 02:36:45 pm

Yeah, the fact her tweet/statement said she was "so, so sorry". I did feel for her.

Super Mario Fart
23/5/2017 12:46:57 pm

What these idiots want is to create religious war and make martyrs of themselves.
We (and the media) have the power to take this away from them by not associating their actions with religion. It seems so glaringly simple but alas, it doesn't fit the mediastinum agenda to go that route.

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Clockwork Fool
23/5/2017 07:06:21 pm

We can't take away their ability to make this a religious war, not by simply refusing to acknowledge that side of it. We can't stop them describing it in those terms, we can't stop them using that kind of imagery and rhetoric and we can't stop them getting that message out into the wild.

The only way you could meaningfully stop efforts to describe their genocidal campaigns as a holy war would be to have voices with authority and a grasp on people's imagination counter and oppose that message. Undermine the arguments that such brutality is glorious, or in some way of service to anything other than some mad warlords bloodlust.

All that ignoring it would do is leave that narrative unopposed. Least, as far as I understand the situation.

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Rawce
23/5/2017 12:57:11 pm

Very well put, and a thanks for posting. I think I might avoid Twitter for a while until the poison dilutes a little.

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jay
23/5/2017 01:33:34 pm

There was an easy political solution for the IRA though, they just wanted to be a republic free of British rule and would have stopped instantly had that goal been achieved. The fundamentals and politics enshrined within Islam call for a global caliphate by any means necessary, I personally do not see any political solution to that when people are often brainwashed from an early age to believe in such theocratic bullshit.

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Mr Biffo
23/5/2017 02:09:16 pm

I don't think there is a political solution, at least not of the sort that leads to the Good Friday Agreement. This needs something else, but nobody in power is ever looking at alternatives.

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Nige
23/5/2017 03:20:56 pm

Speaking as a long-time Manchester resident, thanks for this. It means a lot.

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David W
23/5/2017 04:34:06 pm

Thanks for writing this.

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Pablo Watsoni
23/5/2017 04:49:39 pm

Great piece Mr. B. I'm generally quite cynical but I've been touched by the number of people across the world who stand in solidarity with those affected and even people directly affected defiant in their determination to carry on normally as best they can in the face of these awful attacks.

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PS1Snake
23/5/2017 08:17:54 pm

The uncomfortable truth is that there is no solution. You can't reason with someone who doesn't care about losing their life or their liberty. The violent ideology that Islamic terrorists operate on is underpinned by a global religion that is expanding across the world. That in itself makes it much harder to tackle because on the one hand we strive to accommodate Islam in UK society and on the other hand we want to stifle the violent variant of it. The conflicted feelings that arise prevents the development of clear, robust stance towards the religion and its practices. I think as Islam grows in this country, it'll only create more opportunities for Islamic extremism to develop since at its core it encourages separation (between believers and non-believers) which can in turn prime people for extremist indoctrination.

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Wrist Flapper
23/5/2017 09:30:44 pm

With respect, you're lumping Islam and the people who get called Islamic terrorists in the same pot. If I yell Allahu BigMacbar and punch you in the face, that doesn't make it McDonalds terrorism. It just makes me an arsehole using McDonalds and an excuse to rationalise my crimes.
Islam isn't the problem. In fact, it's often the main victim. Look at the NCTC report in 2011 where: "In cases where the religious affiliation of terrorism casualties could be determined, Muslims suffered between 82 and 97 per cent of terrorism-related fatalities over the past five years." These sorts of things are happening in Muslim majority countries on a daily basis but it's not reported here because they were born with a different amount of melanin in their skin. Ironically, reporting the attacks against people of the faith ISIS and their ilk claim to be supporting would be a good way to show impressionable people that they are far from the voice of freedom and justice, and might also make people think twice about blaming a religion whose leaders here have spoken out time and time again against these atrocities.

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Spiney O'Sullivan
23/5/2017 09:43:29 pm

Indeed. It's important to remember that ISIS have killed a ton of Muslims of all ages. We just don't get much coverage of that sort of thing because it's "over there". The FT actually did some quite good features on life under their regime.

Spoilers: not great.

We're farked....
23/5/2017 11:14:07 pm

"These sorts of things are happening in Muslim majority countries on a daily basis"

That, singularly, is what you need to focus on. Question why that might be. Why only in Muslim-majority countries do these sorts of things happen on a daily basis? The answer isn't comforting, is it?

PS1Snake
24/5/2017 12:18:10 am

But they [the terrorists] aren't simply yelling "god is great" which just happens to be same phrase that non-violent Muslims may also use. The entire world view of ISIS and its supporters has been derived from a more literal interpretation of the Quran – a holy book that is exclusive to Islam.

They have found justifications for their violent actions in the Quran. Whether it is a violent form of punishment for criminal activity, the keeping of female sex slaves, or the killing of non-believers, they have interpreted verses in Islam’s holy book in such a way that enables them to feel as if they are being faithful to the Quran’s teachings. The reason they kill so many Muslims in Muslim majority countries is because they don’t consider such people to be real Muslims since they don’t submit to the ISIS brand of Islam. Similarly, they don’t consider Muslims in the West who practise a western-compatible interpretation of Islam to be real Muslims either.

The idea that Islam has nothing to do with Islamic terrorism is ridiculous. People keep trying to divorce Islam from ISIS by saying that they aren’t real Muslims or that their interpretation is wrong. This is pointless. ISIS fanatics will simply respond that their violent interpretation is the truest form of Islam. We in the West can scream “you’re wrong” until we’re blue in the face, but they won’t care because we’re the infidels – the people who need to be wiped out.

If the book is inherently peaceful then why can it be interpreted in a way that seemingly justifies such violent acts? It fundamentally advocates segregation between believers and non-believers), and in doing so it helps to create social conditions that can make the transition to religious extremism seem more attractive.

There are people living in this country who harbour a deep hatred for the West and more specifically Britain. I don’t think they want to negotiate – as I said you can’t negotiate with people who don’t value their lives or liberty. They find the idea of indiscriminately inflicting death and destruction upon civilians thrilling. The sentiment is there among certain groups of people.

We have allowed them to exist and grow in number by priding ourselves on being a tolerant society. In some ways we are slowly authoring our own destruction. I don’t believe the problem of Islamic terrorism will simply simmer down over time like the IRA grievance because 1) their goals cannot be met by us and 2) the ideology powering groups like ISIS is underpinned by an interpretation of a global religion. The problem of Islamic terrorism is here to stay and will likely become a more frequent issue as the population of marginalised young men from poorly integrated Islamic backgrounds grows in the UK and Europe.

Wrist Flapper
24/5/2017 08:15:21 pm

You suggest that the Quran is the true reason behind this. Well, I read a book recently about someone who woke up one day and realised that everything around them must be destroyed, that only through sating this desire for destruction can we truly achieve our potential and that, at the end of this, we are reborn to a form of higher being that excuses all we've done. It was called The Very Hungry Caterpillar. Anything can be interpreted if the mind behind that interpretation is elastic enough to not snag itself on things like reason and logic. If I look at a cloud and see a walrus and you look at the same cloud and see a bomb, that doesn't make the cloud evil.

Getting rid of Islam wouldn't stop extremism any more than getting rid of McDonalds would get rid of fat people, and in both cases you'd end up punishing the majority of people who enjoy those two things without it being a problem. I utterly agree that extremists are people for whom the likelihood of a political settlement is, at best, highly unlikely. This is why we need to work together with communities to show that these people are not what they claim. We need to fight the thinking behind those who've twisted the teachings of a religion and stop them from gaining more recruits. And you're also right that this will increase with people who are marginalised and poorly integrated. That you understand this makes me confused as to why you'd choose to exacerbate the issue by blaming a whole group of people who've done nothing wrong, further marginalising them.

Oh, and farked... it's not just Muslim majority countries where bad things happen. Look at the human rights violations in Venezuela or Bolivia, 2 Christian majority countries. Arseholes don't care about religion. They're the universal constant.

Scott C
23/5/2017 09:44:34 pm

This^. Question and challenge everything that has a negative impact on humanity. There should be no special allowances for any religion compared to any other set of arbitrary beliefs. "Sacred" does not exist.

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Mr Biffo
24/5/2017 06:54:27 am

Just to reiterate, when I mentioned the "Peace Process" I wasn't suggesting that we try and find some representative of extremism to sit down and talk with. But... there HAS to be some sort of "peace process" of some sort. It can't just be war after war after war. Obviously, there's no negotiation to be had, but there HAS to be some solution - even if it's long-term, changing the next generation, and the one after - because the only ones being offered currently are "Carry on as normal" and "Bombing raids" - and they don't seem to be making a difference, and the attacks seem to be getting worse.

I dunno. I really don't. I'm just some idiot, but this hasn't come out of nowhere. We get attacked because we're hated, but WHY are we hated? I don't think it's enough to just blame that solely on some ancient book.

Starbuck
23/5/2017 09:33:45 pm

I don't have any insight, anything constructive to add, not even anger just now, only sadness.

And gratitude that the Digi community exists.

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Jon Downes
24/5/2017 02:29:49 pm

God bless you Biffs

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Alt-right wanker
25/5/2017 07:59:01 pm

Islam, moderate or otherwise has no place in Western Europe as shown by the actions of one of their glorious warriors (he seemed like a nice, normal adherent, honest guv) who bravely averted his gaze from the eyes of a child and detonated a bomb by the grace of his delusions in the belief of a made up nonsense god. The sooner enlightenment, logic and science completely destroy this awful religion, the better.
The silent apologists, who cloyingly feign sympathy will one day show their true colours once a majority has been achieved. If, at any time all you spineless hippies wake up, don't come running to the so-called racists or facists or whatever buzzword of the week you apply to the last bastion of sanity left in Great Britain.

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Nige
25/5/2017 10:54:18 pm

"racists or facists or whatever buzzword of the week you apply to the last bastion of sanity left in Great Britain"
Putting it as politely as I can manage, I don't think anyone here is ever going to agree with you. Please move along (and leave our bins alone).

Reply
Emgee
26/5/2017 07:19:22 am

There are fundamental broad brush strokes that exist at both ends of the political spectrum that are always tiresome to keep reading over and over again. In this article I read yet again that "the likes of UKIP and Trump were able to capitalise on those fears". When do fears start to be referred to as facts? People ARE being killed in Western countries by followers of radicalised Islam, these 'isolated incidents' have been frequent 'one-offs' for years now. Responding to yet another bomb with anger instead of the usual "we will carry on as normal" response does not mean that people want to turn to parties who are capitalising on the deaths, it just means that people are sick of ignoring what is patently obvious and action must be taken. Firm, decisive and unapologetic action.

Reply
Methuselah Now
29/5/2017 03:43:54 am

Dear Biffo,


As wise and well-meaning as ever.

Reading some of the comments, it's clear people aren't necessarily aware to there own conditioning.

Always check your assumptions.

Ask yourself how much is by design.

Always remember we are all human.


After the fall of the soviet union, certain interests required a new enemy; who and why?

First it was sadaam hussein, then al-quaida, then back to sadaam Hussain, then Iran, then Libya, then Syria, now isis.

If bombings were treated just as a normal crimes, as abhorrent as they can often be, certain interests wouldn't have been able to scare us into accepting and paying for wholesale changes to culture and society from re-creating more power and monitoring than the stasi had.

We wouldn't have been able to intimidate submissive, undignified defensive Muslims to defenistrate their religious beliefs to be secondary to the beliefs of non-belivers (moulding a hollow British Islam) thereby removing a force that could articulate to the rest of us what was being done in our name in their ancestral homelands.

It's not that the terrorists have succeeded, it's that they've been used by those with a world view who either we elect, or read, or pay either.

It's not a coincidence of the timing of neoliberalism running amok, and neoconservatism, it is history and we are all victims of it.

We need to dehumanise the "enemy", we need to make them as foreign or alien as possible, for lest we start asking questions.

Since 11/9/2001 in America, a Member bombing killing brown skinned innocent children or mothers has on average happened every single day. If maybe we cried for those and did gatherings of support, as a British, maybe the bomber would have realised we weren't all happy to live in ignorant joyful bliss.

Don't follow the given narrative so readily.

What if these UK born and raised bombers aren't pure unmitigated evil, what if they're super-sensitive to the pains of others not in their immediate geography and have come to the evidential conclusion there is no hope from within ourselves: what were some of the suffregettes willing to do, the native south Africans, the Indians?

Our ignorance leads us to our blindness, the eternal victim with all the power, and ourselves to be easier manipulated to better serve others interests.

Isis is, in reality, nothing, a fraction of a population, a cumulation of the remnants of all the defeated forces over the nearly last 2 decades, a proxy for anti-shia-ism, but no real threat, and w can't even decide whether to treat them as potential state actor, or Afghanistan-like gang/cartel or a supra-national network, when our own governments are intellectually bankrupt to ascribe global affiliation when different groups simply rebrand or offer rhetorical declaration of support only.

There is so much to unwind across the conditioning and Propaganda over the last decades, but remember one thing, it's never our fault, and the other "side" is completely irrational.

Yours kindly,


Methuselah Now

Reply
Methuselah Now
29/5/2017 03:46:37 am

Dear Biffo,


As wise and well-meaning as ever.

Reading some of the comments, it's clear people aren't necessarily aware to there own conditioning.

Always check your assumptions.

Ask yourself how much is by design.

Always remember we are all human.


After the fall of the soviet union, certain interests required a new enemy; who and why?

First it was sadaam hussein, then al-quaida, then back to sadaam Hussain, then Iran, then Libya, then Syria, now isis.

If bombings were treated just as a normal crimes, as abhorrent as they can often be, certain interests wouldn't have been able to scare us into accepting and paying for wholesale changes to culture and society from re-creating more power and monitoring than the stasi had.

We wouldn't have been able to intimidate submissive, undignified defensive Muslims to defenistrate their religious beliefs to be secondary to the beliefs of non-belivers (moulding a hollow British Islam) thereby removing a force that could articulate to the rest of us what was being done in our name in their ancestral homelands.

It's not that the terrorists have succeeded, it's that they've been used by those with a world view who either we elect, or read, or pay either.

It's not a coincidence of the timing of neoliberalism running amok, and neoconservatism, it is history and we are all victims of it.

We need to dehumanise the "enemy", we need to make them as foreign or alien as possible, for lest we start asking questions.

Since 11/9/2001 in America, a Member bombing killing brown skinned innocent children or mothers has on average happened every single day. If maybe we cried for those and did gatherings of support, as a British, maybe the bomber would have realised we weren't all happy to live in ignorant joyful bliss.

Don't follow the given narrative so readily.

What if these UK born and raised bombers aren't pure unmitigated evil, what if they're super-sensitive to the pains of others not in their immediate geography and have come to the evidential conclusion there is no hope from within ourselves: what were some of the suffregettes willing to do, the native south Africans, the Indians?

Our ignorance leads us to our blindness, the eternal victim with all the power, and ourselves to be easier manipulated to better serve others interests.

Isis is, in reality, nothing, a fraction of a population, a cumulation of the remnants of all the defeated forces over the nearly last 2 decades, a proxy for anti-shia-ism, but no real threat, and w can't even decide whether to treat them as potential state actor, or Afghanistan-like gang/cartel or a supra-national network, when our own governments are intellectually bankrupt to ascribe global affiliation when different groups simply rebrand or offer rhetorical declaration of support only.

There is so much to unwind across the conditioning and Propaganda over the last decades, but remember one thing, it's never our fault, and the other "side" is completely irrational.

Yours kindly,


Methuselah Now

Reply
Random Reviewer
30/5/2017 03:03:20 am

All religions are harmful to some extent, but it's a question of degree. Interpretation of the holy books is big issue. Clearly, Isis and groups like them have an interpretation of the Quoran that is extreme and false. Yet there is obviously something about this book that lends itself to that view. Here's where I'm at: The left is correct - we have to ensure we don't go around creating the social conditions of poverty and neglect that allow resentment and hostility to fester within minority communities. On the other hand, the right is correct in pointing out that there are flaws intrinsic to Islam that stem fromm the text itself. Unless we honestly address both issues we're going to keep repeating the same old cycle.

Reply



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